Vudar BAttleship?

[Nerroth]

So, I will mention the list to Petrick in an email: Vudar, WYN, Orion, and Seltorian. It'll be fun to see what he thinks of the various ships. (I don't have to mention the Andromedan or Archeo-Tholian, as they already exist in SFB. If Steve wants to use them in Federation Commander, he can do it at any time.)

For the Seltorians, will you mention the Nest Ship-derived Assaultwagon, or ask for a "regular" battleship instead?

Since the Selt BBL pushes the limit of their current SC 2 hull type, it might be hard for them to get a "true" MC 2 warship (unless they elect to build a brand new hull type in the home galaxy); but the AW does at least have a mention in print already.

[mjwest]

for the Seltorians, will you mention the Nest Ship-derived Assaultwagon, or ask for a "regular" battleship instead?

A "regular" battleship.

The Battlewagon is simply a purpose-built (or purpose-jury-rigged) siege weapon. It isn't a battleship proper. Rather, I am asking for a true battleship.

And, the cool thing is that it gives two ships are a result. Presumably the "two pod" version would be the battleship proper, but there would still be a "one pod" version that is something smaller. Whether the smaller one is called a light battleship or heavy dreadnought or whatever, it would still be a separate ship type.

[Nerroth]

for the Seltorians, will you mention the Nest Ship-derived Assaultwagon, or ask for a "regular" battleship instead?

A "regular" battleship.

The Battlewagon is simply a purpose-built (or purpose-jury-rigged) siege weapon. It isn't a battleship proper. Rather, I am asking for a true battleship.

And, the cool thing is that it gives two ships are a result. Presumably the "two pod" version would be the battleship proper, but there would still be a "one pod" version that is something smaller. Whether the smaller one is called a light battleship or heavy dreadnought or whatever, it would still be a separate ship type.

Fair enough.

Although, I kind of like the idea of the Seltorians doing things differently to other empires. They get to use Battlewagons and Assaultwagons to bust bases and to kill Dyson Spheres, which no-one else can do. So it seems only reasonable that there has to be a little give for them in some other category.

(Similarly, while I like the metal-hull Jindarians, part of their character as a species is the reliance on their asteroid ships as the key basis of their nomadic culture. I'm not sure if the rock ships would ever work in FC, at least not as smoothly as the metal ships. But even if the latter were to be brought over to this game system, I would hope they'd still assume that the asteroid ships are "out there", even if they aren't featured in the game directly.)

[mjwest]

I vote for the Archo-Tholian BB.

I didn't suggest the Archeo-Tholian BB or the Andromedan BB to Petrick, as they already exist in SFB. I only mentioned ships that aren't in SFB to Petrick.

Steve can already create ship cards for the Andromedans and Archeo-Tholians any time it makes sense to, as they already exist in SFB. The other four (Orion, Seltorian, Vudar, WYN) can't be done in Federation Commander, as they don't exist in SFB.

Also, remember that historically only four ship cards are done in a Captain's Log. Unless Steve wants to change that, if he does battleships, we only get two. So, if, for example, Petrick were interested in doing the WYN Fish and Vudar battleships, that would fill up the Federation Commander slots right there with the two. Or, if Petrick did the Seltorians (like mentioned directly above), those two ships would do it for Federation Commander in that issue by themselves. (Yes, Steve could increase the pages allocated to Federation Commander ships, but that would come at the expense of something else.)

[DNordeen]

I agree the Orion BB will have a lot of power, but since reinforcement is limited to batteries, I don't know if they'd be able to spend it all.

If it could avoid the possible pitfalls, it'd make a nice addition to round out the fleet mix for campaigns.

I remember reading that the Archo-Tholian was impossible to build because putting that many PCs together was just too unstable.

[mjwest]

Well, remember that what I suggested to Petrick was for SFB, not Federation Commander. And that means any potential Orion BB has the potential to be an absolute uncontrollable monster. Yes, it might be toned down in Federation Commander due to its mechanics, but the ship would probably be terrifying in SFB.

As for the Archeo-Tholian, again, it is already in SFB (albeit as an impossible ship from Stellar Shadows). So, it doesn't need to be added to SFB. That means it is already available to Steve for use in Federation Commander at any point he so chooses.

[Kang]

For the Orion BB, you could always prohibit engine doubling. Invent some techno reason why the engines can't be doubled ("engines that big can't be doubled", "structural integrity", take your pick) and then it will have a fixed amount of power.

Or, if this idea makes it lose just too much Orion 'flavour', then just let it double one engine at a time or something.

[storeylf]

Or, if this idea makes it lose just too much Orion 'flavour',

You think a BB could have any orion flavor to start with!

[mjwest]

In the case of the Orion BB, I simply presented the challenge to Petrick. I figure he can make it work, it it is at all possible. I am not gonna worry about how to make it work, as I don't think I buy into the need or utility of an Orion BB in the first place.

By that I mean that the Vudar and WYN Fish BBs make perfect sense. While both empires are far too small and tenuous to consider designing, much less building, such a massive ship, they are still both "traditional fleets". By this I mean that if their empires had been as large as the Klingons or Federation, they could have considered a battleship. The only thing "holding them back" is simply the size of their empire. (This also applies to the Seltorians, if they were to get a non-battlewagon battleship.) In an "alternative existence" (or a free campaign), they could make use of a BB.

However, the Orion fleet is different. It is a purpose-built fleet designed for light raiding or mercenary work (i.e. piracy). As such, it is missing lots of elements that other fleets would have, including larger ships, formal command ships, and many types of variants. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that the Orions, even in an "alternative existence" or free campaign would never be able to truly make use of a BB.

[storeylf]

That was what I was meaning, though it was said in jest, I just can't see the BB pirate ship. I mean how do you make a profit in a BB? There's only so many raids that would even pay for the BB leaving port, never mind the cost of building it.

An orion BB would have what, 10 option mounts, and maybe 6+ drone mounts. I'm sure our resident orion player who loves drones would be interested that BB with 12 drone control. Though then again he hates the DN.

[Nerroth]

Sorry to quote the same point in two separate posts, but something occurred to me when I was thinking over this part:

And, the cool thing is that it gives two ships are a result. Presumably the "two pod" version would be the battleship proper, but there would still be a "one pod" version that is something smaller. Whether the smaller one is called a light battleship or heavy dreadnought or whatever, it would still be a separate ship type.

That might be three ships, if such a hull were to follow the example of the NCL, DNL, and BBL as being (theoretically) capable of mounting three forward booms.

In that case, were the two-boom "base hull" to have a MC of 2, that might lead to an unprecedented default MC of 2.25 for such a ship. (I could envision the Worb battleship doing the same thing, were they ever to get one.)

[mjwest]

That might be three ships, if such a hull were to follow the example of the NCL, DNL, and BBL as being (theoretically) capable of mounting three forward booms.

Or, for that matter, four, if you do whatever they did to make the NCA.

That said, I would only expect the main two.