When do evasive restrictions begin?

[terryoc]

I know that when you declare EM, the benefits aren't gained until the next impulse. When do the restrictions kick in? Immediately, or when you gain the benefits?

[Kang]

Both the restrictions and the benefits kick in together. I've always interpreted the phrase 'takes effect' as meaning 'all effects start happening'. Sure, the enemy can get off his 'one last shot' - but so can you.

[storeylf]

You don't wait until the next impulse to gain the benefits, EM kicks in after the following offensive fire phase.

Whilst you usually use EM to gain a benefit during offensive fire, and therefore may be seeing next impulse as when you benefit, you in fact are also under EM during the launch phase of the same impulse (so can't launch yourself), and other functions, so you can't be tractored etc.

[terryoc]

The meat of my question is that it says, "effectively giving the enemy one last shot..." [emphasis mine] which seems to imply that only the enemy gets one last shot.

[storeylf]

"Evasive manouvering is announced at the end of the defensive fire phase, but takes effect at the end of the subsequent direct fire phase."

Ergo no benefits or limits until the end of the direct fire phase. In effect it gives the enemy (and everyone else) one a last shot. But you will still be under other restrictions/benefits before next impulse (launch etc).

I'm sure I've seen this answered somewhere else (but not sure if it was a communique or another thread here) , thats how we play it anyway.

[mjwest]

LF has it correct.

The benefits and restrictions do not start until after the Offensive Fire phase. Therefore, while the purpose is to allow the enemy one last shot, you get the opportunity to take one last shot, too.

[terryoc]

Thanks Mike, that is useful to know...

[JimDauphinais]

Mike -- Thanks for the clarification. I know I have been playing this wrong. The clarification may be worthy of consideration for inclusion in the next CRUL update. It is unfortunately another example of where a "starred' clarification has been added to the 5th Edition rules, but older somewhat contradictory language has been retained. In this case the last sentence of the first paragraph of (2D4a) suggests that after you pay the energy for the declaration you are "... then considered to be 'maneuvering evasively'" and the first sentence of (2D4b) indicates that "[a] ship which is maneuvering evasively cannot: fire or launch ...". The combination of the lanuguage misled me into believing there was a special meaning when the term "maneuvering evasively" was used such that the limitations kicked in before the benefits kicked in.

The easiest fix is likely to modify the "starred" clarification in (2D4a) from "... but takes effect at the end of the subsequent Direct Fire Phase ..." to "... but the benefits and limitations take effect at the end of the subsequent Offensive-Direct Fire Phase ...".

[Kang]

From a techy-speak point of view, I like to think of it like this: the Captain orders Evasive Maneuvers, the other ships detect the 'characteristic' power buildup, and then after a few seconds (the Direct Fire phase), the helmsman (or whatever creature it is) takes over the wheel and starts yanking it around. At no time in this 'buildup' period is the ship actually evading, therefore everyone can shoot without hindrance, including the evasive ship.

[Wolverin61]

From a techy-speak point of view, I like to think of it like this: the Captain orders Evasive Maneuvers, the other ships detect the 'characteristic' power buildup, and then after a few seconds (the Direct Fire phase), the helmsman (or whatever creature it is) takes over the wheel and starts yanking it around. At no time in this 'buildup' period is the ship actually evading, therefore everyone can shoot without hindrance, including the evasive ship.

Always thought it was more like the helmsman hits the EM button and the computer starts yanking it around. Don't know how you Klingons do it though, Kang

[DirkSJ]

Always thought it was more like the helmsman hits the EM button and the computer starts yanking it around. Don't know how you Klingons do it though, Kang

Realism arguments never work for SFB/FC...the entire fight is over in less than a second. Maybe 2 seconds tops for a long battle.

In truth the commander is probably meaningless and it's all handled by computers .

[Wolverin61]

Yeah. I think a game turn is supposed to be thirty seconds in real time, so it's over pretty quickly.

[DirkSJ]

Yeah. I think a game turn is supposed to be thirty seconds in real time, so it's over pretty quickly.

I'm pretty sure a full 8 impulse turn is less than 1 second.

[Kang]

In SFB, the scale calculates out as being about 33ms (milliseconds) per turn, which makes an Impulse about 1ms.

In FC, only the hex scale is given (10,000km), not the time or speed scale. Also because there is no warp requirement for movement faster than 1 hex per turn, there really is no reference frame anymore in this regard.

You can therefore call your speed whatever you like, your time whatever you like.

My own personal preference is to imagine that that all combat takes place at sublight speeds, and only at disengagement does a ship go to 'warp'.

[Wolverin61]

Ok, I was wrong. SFB (A3.4) Game Scale says a turn is 1/30 second. Knew there was a 30 in there somewhere though