Talon

[Steve Cole]

Of course, the COVID19 virus is disrupting every business in ways great and small. I have been waiting two weeks for a vendor to reply to a request for a quote that previously took 24 hours. More than one game publisher isn't working.

[Itharus]

Just out of curiosity... what's grabbin' you for this Talon game?

SFB, even if you decide to take advantage of its modular nature and just pick and choose which modules to use, does take a fair amount of time to play. You can easily spend 8+ hours on one engagement. A few 8 hour sessions if you're being really ambitious with fleet size and using most/all the rules. I'd wager even a small game takes at least 3 to 4, though, pretty generally.

It's just an incredibly simulationist game like that. I'd bet money that it wouldn't be that difficult to write a program to handle most of the crunch rules, even, lol.

Federation Commander, by contrast, cuts those game times by around 50% depending on what scale you're using. I've had duels and very small engagements be done in as little as 90 minutes to two hours. And it does this while keeping the core play of SFB, even if you do sacrifice a few niche options (RIP, niche options).

Most Warhammer 40k games I've played take about 3-4 hours to play (below 2k pts - as of sixth ed anyway), with the largest taking as many as 8 hours (apocalypse games). The same can be said for most decent TTRPG games I've played - those are usually 3-5 hours a session. And campaigns for that can last a year or more!

So just how fast is this Talon game? How complex can it possibly be if it's going faster than FC? What is it that's grabbing you that FC doesn't provide?

[koogie]

Its SFB/Fed Com at 1/8 scale (A heavy cruiser has about 7-8 internals, 3 weapons, shields that are 4-6 boxes, and about 1-5 points of power based on the the speed selected). it's a true "fleet" scale. Perfect for resolving campaign battles.

Think of the Star Fleet Battle Force ship cards with shield boxes. Now move them around on a hex map and you don't use the weapon/action cards. That is pretty much the scale.

As a 1 on 1 ship duel though, forget it. It won't satisfy in that regard.

[Savedfromwhat]

Think of the Star Fleet Battle Force ship cards with shield boxes. Now move them around on a hex map and you don't use the weapon/action cards. That is pretty much the scale.

This quote is intriguing. I just got that game out the other day and I was admiring the artwork. It is a really beautiful game imho and a game that could use that style of card would be really cool.

[pixelgeek]

I liked Talon but the main issue for me is the very short ranges of the weapons and the 'traffic jam' that results when you play. A fleet sized game runs of risk of being an unplayable snarl of ships in the middle of the table.

[koogie]

I agree about the short weapon ranges and traffic jam.

I think an SFB version of Talon would work best with 8 impulses, with weapons ranges out optimally at 4 hexes, with a chance to do slight damage beyond that, overloads 2 hexes. Ships can move up to speed 8.

[Bolo_MK_XL]

Not knowing the 1"=A formula for Talon...
Can only say, playing micro-armor,
at times we changed that from 1"=50m
to 1"=10m....
A slight change should separate the ships a bit,
and shouldn't take much to change the range/movement charts.....

That is if you find the scrum to be a problem.....

[pixelgeek]

That is if you find the scrum to be a problem.....

Well it is a jarring change after playing FC and SFB

[Grumpy Grognard]

Came by the Forums looking for house rules for Federation Commander. Specifically to see if anyone has rules for compressing the number of impulses a turn.

Came across this Talon thread (I love Talon & Space Empires 4X) and wanted to add my name to the list of customers who

[Shadow Warrior]

As someone who's played SFB since Designer's Edition, but hasn't bought any new SFU stuff for at least 10 years, Star Fleet Talon would be an instant purchase for me.

It would let me scratch that SFB fleet engagement itch in 90 minutes.

[Steve Cole]

We're not making deals with outside designer/publishers right now (need to finish what we have) but that may change at some point within a year.

[Shadow Warrior]

We're not making deals with outside designer/publishers right now (need to finish what we have) but that may change at some point within a year.

Acknowledged. Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

[Steve Cole]

I would say, having worked through the transition to GURPS, ACTA, and Starmada, that you must remember that the universe trumps the game system. Things have to work the same and produce the same effect. Seeking weapons in all games influence enemy movement; that's why you cannot convert drones into direct-fire weapons. They have to move on the map and make the enemy decide if he's going to take the hit or move over there. Starmada and ACTA required major revisions to make that work; another project self-destructed when the designer of the game system said that he either converted drones/plasmas into direct-fire weapons or abandon the project. We abandoned the project. Another designer who wanted to do SFU in his game system quit when we refused to let him use an insanely complicated damage system which produced results that screwed up SFU. Another outside designer got upset when we rejected his work because he changed key concepts of SFU (like how many ships can be in a battle).

Beyond that, nothing like ACTA/Starmada/Talon can add anything to SFU that isn't already in SFB. We had a lot of trouble with some transition designers who never got their projects published not understanding that you cannot copy all of the non-SFU trek stuff from TV into "their" game. IP licensing is a minefield. Treat lightly.

[Shadow Warrior]

All completely understood - thank you again.

[Monty]

The more I played Talon the more fiddly the damage on the counter gets to be for little added benefit. The ranges and tight scrum nature is not the same dynamic as SFB/SFC. Not saying its bad but to SVC