ADD vs Shuttle

Panda21 · Post by **Panda21** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:56 pm

In 4E2b, it says that if an ADD hits a suicide shuttle it is immediately destroyed, but in 4E3b it says it damages the shuttle based on a die roll. I know that 4E2b is defensive and the other is offensive but why would the ADD be different damage amounts based on when in the turn it is fired. I would assume that an ADD is meant to destroy a drone and that the shuttle is harder to kill so even if the ADD hit in the defensive fire phase it would only have a chance of destroying it, not a guarantee.

Thoughts? Am I missing something?

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:54 am

Fifth Edition -- Reference Rulebook.
4E2b doesn't deal with Shuttles, just Drones.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:44 am

In the RRBv6, the ADD was expanded to allow it to harm suicide shuttles during defensive fire, and to also be used "offensively" at range. It can fire at any non-impacted drone or shuttle within two hexes.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:23 am

As far as "why" there are two different results, who knows?

One explanation could be that an impacted suicide shuttle is so close that, if it is hit, its guidance system is toasted and it goes inert. "At range" hits would not have the same effect.

Not sure why that was added to the original rules, but it further reduced the effectiveness of drones.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:50 pm

Two separate issues here:

1) The ability of ADDs to affect shuttles and drones at range was added in v6.

2) The difference between shuttles at range and suicide shuttles in defensive fire was intentional. The thinking was that adding a roll to the defensive fire was adding unnecessary complexity, but an outright kill at range was too powerful. As a result, you see the divergence in the rules.

If you need a technobabble explanation, just remember that a suicide shuttle is carrying an barely stable anti-matter bomb. Getting hit by a kinetic kill weapon is just enough to set it off harmlessly at range.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:31 pm

Yeah, go with that one.

Panda21 · Post by **Panda21** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:29 pm

Ok, I guess that all makes sense, but then I have a general tactics question:

As the new guy here, are suicide shuttles even worth launching? Tell me if I'm making a mistake somewhere.

1. Costs 6 points of energy to launch (or less, but to get good damage, seems like it needs 6).
2. Moves at speed 8, so chances of impacting are very minimal. Most ships can outrun/outmanuever easily.
3. After all that, the chances to do any damage are 33%. The victim has to roll a 5 or 6 on his ADD or my shuttle is immediately destroyed.
4. Assuming I win the die roll and he gets a 5 or 6, he can now just shoot me with a couple of phaser 3s costing 1 point of energy and I lose again.

Is there any realistic way that a shuttle will be meaningful in a fight with the way this is all structured?

And please don't forget that I'm completely new to FC. I've owned it for about 3 weeks and played it with the family a handful of times so I could be missing major things here. Sorry.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:59 pm

One useful point to launch is to defend against an overrun by your opponent.
More like using a Transporter Bomb (Mine) than a seeking weapon.
Though used at certain times can keep your opponent at a distant or force him to face you with a different shield.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:28 pm

Plus if you can tractor the target, you stand a better chance of hitting him. Also they are useful at close range, or in trying to keep your opponent away.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:23 am

It can cause an opponent to dodge and maybe not get the shot he wants (or the one that you want him to have). It can also soak up 2 of his Ph-3s that will not be firing at you for another 8 hits.

Panda21 · Post by **Panda21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:33 am

These are all great points. Thanks. I've got a lot to learn about tactics still. I barely even think about tractors yet.

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:29 pm

I recall reading about an Orion player in the tournament who tractored an opponent's ship with his dreadnought and hit it with suicide shuttles until it blew up. The Orion DN has a crazy amount of power when it doubles its engine output.

Panda21 · Post by **Panda21** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:54 pm

So I actually used some shuttles last night. Still got beaten but I'm getting the idea.

One question. What is the "firing arc" of a shuttle? For drones the enemy has to be in the FA arc. Is that true for shuttles? Also, from watching the show I made an assumption that the shuttles would start going the opposite direction of the main ship. Drones start forward and shuttles backward because the hangar deck is on the rear of the ship. Looking through the rules I don't see a starting direction mentioned. What should it be?

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 pm

What is the "firing arc" of a shuttle? For drones the enemy has to be in the FA arc. Is that true for shuttles?

Shuttles are Launched (360 Degrees).
Placed in the hex of the Launching Ship.
Facing so the Target is in the Forward Arc of the Suicide Shuttle.

Just like drones, target doesn't have to be in FA of the Launching Ship.
You may be interpreting that incorrectly.

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:08 pm

Not sure what you mean by drone firing arc being FA?

Both drones and shuttles have 360 degree launch arcs. It doesn't matter where the enemy is these seekers can be launched at it. You place the seeker so that the enemy is in the FA of the seeker after placement.

E.g. I am facing north (direction A). An enemy is 3 hexes away off my shield 3 (Direction C). I can launch any drones or shuttles at this enemy, as they have 360 launch arcs.

On placing the above seekers I have to place them so that the enemy is in their FA. So that means the seekers can face Direction B, C or D. If the enemy was not directly on the hex line then there would only 2 directions the drone could face.

Hope that makes sense.

[edit] and post above me got in before I finished typing