Suicide shuttle

ncrcalamine · Post by **ncrcalamine** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:30 am

In the end game you launch a suicide shuttle directly at an enemy

2 hexes away in that hex row. Next impulse the speed 0 enemy accelerates and either slips or turns into ahex next to the hex the shuttle must move into on its first move. Now by the rules the shuttle just keeps orbiting the stationary target making a 60 degree turn each impulse.
Suicide shuttles need to be able to break and turn in a impulse so they can make a 60 degree turn to hit their target on the next impulse.

Nicole

Krellex · Post by **Krellex** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:38 am

Rule 4F3e; says that the seeking weapon can make a High Energy Turn if it causes the weapon to hit on that current movement sub-pulse. So, the shuttle doesn't have to play ring around the rosie on a non-moving target.

ncrcalamine · Post by **ncrcalamine** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:57 am

Suicide shuttles cannot het

Nicole

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:59 am

Yes it does, shuttles cannot HET.

Shuttles are simply very situational.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:43 pm

Suicide Shuttles cannot HET. They operate under the restrictions of both seeking weapons and shuttles. Since shuttles cannot HET, suicide shuttles cannot HET.

As Lee points out, suicide shuttles are limited seeking weapons. In your example, while the suicide shuttle did not hit like you wanted, you did force your opponent to make an unwanted move and waste power. It will also continue to limit your opponent's movement options until they get some weapons back. So, it is having an effect, just not the one you wanted.

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:27 pm

I think Nicole has described it slightly wrong, but I think what she is saying is that:

1 hex away from you is the enemy.
You launch the shuttle facing directly at it.
It accels to get 1 move in before the shuttle.
It slips so that it is either on the shuttles 2 or 6.
The shuttle must move ahead, so the enemy is now on its 3 or 5.

At this point the enemy ship need never pay any more power, it can sit still and never get hit by the shuttle. And the shuttle can not HET, and must follow the seeker move rules it will always be stuck circling around the stationary ship, but never actually being able to move into the hex. That does seem very odd, that you can't impact a now stationary target.

That is quite amusing.

I don't consider it a problem per se. The shuttle has still had an effect - it has forced the enemy to remain exactly where he is, unless he wants to get into then having to outmanouver the shuttle. A tractor could also be used to get the shuttle to hit by pulling the enemy to the hex you want (it spent 0 on move so is not going to be the controlling ship).

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:05 am

Yes, quite amusing!

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:14 pm

In SFB this was known as the 'Zimdars Dipsy Doodle', and as far as I know is the reason why seeking weapons in FC can (and must) HET to hit the target if they can.

Otherwise, the player owning the seeking weapon can simply decide to HET and hit when the seeker is next to the weakest shield.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:06 pm

In SFB this was known as the 'Zimdars Dipsy Doodle',

Yes, but seeker couldn't run around the ship looking for a down shield, requirement is seeker must move closer to target if possible ---- That carried over to FC ---

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:51 pm

It could, because the turn mode hexes requirement for the seeker was 1, and it wasn't compelled to HET. It did indeed have to move as close as possible, but the only way it could get closer than 1 hex was to HET, which wasn't compulsory. A unit with a turn mode of 1 has a turning circle with a radius of 1 hex, and if the target was within that circle then it couldn't be hit. Oh and the other thing was that the weapon had to be launched with a facing 120 degrees away from its target - legal but dependant on the launching range being 1 hex.

Check out Captain's Log #11, page 67. It's in there

Actually, the tactic itself is on p.68, left column, just below the middle.

Admins: If I have been a bad person for posting the image, let me know and I'll take it down.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 pm

Few people know where the name comes from.

On an episode of Hogan's Heroes, the boys in the Stalag convinced Klink that a psychic had predicted the colonel would lead his troops to a great victory that would be known in history as "the Klink Dipsy Doodle."

I happened to see a rerun of that the day I got the letter from Zimdars with the tactics paper.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:30 pm

Heh. Of course, many (if not most) of the people reading that probably have no idea what "Hogan's Heroes" even is.

On the image, I think it is OK, so let's not worry about it. If it is bad, then Jean will kill it in one shot. It should be short enough to be good, though.

As a more general explanation, yes, this is exactly why the rule on HETs for seeking weapons is different between Federation Commander and SFB. The tactic quoted is only for SFB; it doesn't apply to Federation Commander at all. And this is by design.

Finally, do note that while the situation with the suicide shuttle is very similar to that old SFB tactic, the effect is completely different. The SFB tactic will cause a disadvantage for the defender (target). The suicide shuttle situation is a disadvantage for the attacker. Also, the whole point of the SFB tactic is to delay the HET to maximum effect. The suicide shuttle can't do any of that, as it has not HET to use.

(I figure this is probably obvious to all of the readers, but the conversation has drifted enough that I wanted to make sure the seemly obvious observations were actually stated.)

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:05 am

"Ziiiiimmmmdaaaaaars!"

Captain Klink, DSF

trynda1701 · Post by **trynda1701** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:07 pm

Hmmm, "Hogan's Heroes", that takes me back. And I'm in the UK! lol

Mark

Capt Jack · Post by **Capt Jack** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:09 am

Any chance of a change to suicide shuttle rules?

Here are my two ideas.

1. Increase Shuttle speed to base 16, the trade off being each point of power only does 1 point damage instead of 3.

2. Or give the Suicide a free turn(facing change) on impulse 3. This will stop the Zimdars Dipsy Doodle!