Tractored Ship and Turns

Finman · Post by **Finman** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:33 pm

Yesterday, we had an ISC vs. Kzinti battle (400 points, 6th rev. of the rules). During the battle, his Fast Cruiser (FC) successfully tractored my ISC DD. (The available power of the Fast Cruisers are amazing!)

The question came up when the FC tried to turn later on - the question was whether the DD would maintain it's relative facing to the FC, or if the turn would have rotated the DD from the FC's #6 shield to it's #1 shield.

I looked through the site, and came across this thread:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/federatio ... ht=tractor

Now, reading this and taking rule 5D6's last sentence into account:
"The ship is then treated as an object being towed (above)..."

I believe the FC could have turned and "moved" the DD from the #6 shield to it's #1 shield, which setup all the FC's RS arc weapons which were unable to previously fire. Am I correct?

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:43 pm

Yes, you are correct - if I understand the question correctly.

Assuming the DD is off the #6 shield of the Fast Cruiser and the Fast Cruiser makes a 60-degree trun to port...
The DD will remain where it is (relative to the FC) while the Fast Cruiser turns and brings a new firing arc to bear. The DD does not magically slew through space and move an extra hex just because the FC turned.

Finman · Post by **Finman** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:52 pm

Scoutdad,

Thanks for the very fast reply! Yes, to clarify the Kzinti FC was in hex 0805 (facing A), and the ISC DD was in hex 0705 (facing E) When the FC made a turn 60 degrees to port into hex 0705 (now facing F) it appears that the DD would have been pushed into hex 0604 - with the DD having the same facing as before. (facing E)

Then, the FC would have opened up with all his RS phaser-3's into the DD's down shield.

Michael_M · Post by **Michael_M** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:42 am

In this case, I just waited till the next turn before destroying as we could not find the specific rule and just said "eh, it really does not matter that much".

After blowing the DD into salvage, I ran for the map edge as I was in no condition to fight anymore. My FC had 1/2 of the number 1 shield left and #5, #6, and #2 were down and about 20-25% internal damage. My DN on the other had only had about 5% internal damage but only shield #3 and #4 had any boxes left and both my ships were out of drones. By running we ended up in a tie, by the calculations I was up by 15% (one destroyed DD and one crippled [war cruiser with PPD's] vs. 1 DN and 1 FC forced to withdraw. I ran as the PPD's would be recharged before I would be able to close with him again. On a slightly different note, the ISC crew really need to learn how to shoot better. With the internal damage (about 40 in total), I only lost 1 phase. The ISC captain was really yelling at the crew since the Cats (Kzinti) would hit nothing but weapons (roll of 6) and power (roll of 1). I would have felt sorry for him, but he did invade my space and interupted my cat nap.

In SFB there is a rule that only allows certain ships to be taken when specific conditions apply. For example, you cannot take a 'leader' variant unless you have 2 other ships that are not leader variants. Is there such a rule in FC or could I take 3x CC (as an example) and still be legal within the rules?

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:46 am

Federation Commander doesn't have a rule "S8" per say and you could run 3x CC.
Most of your opponents would scream cheese!!!!
Now, there are caveats. The Origins tournament for example has limits. But in a pick up game, pretty much anything goes. Want to run 3 Klingon B10s against an equal pointage of Juggernauts (Good Luck finding anyone with enough minis to do that

), but sure - it'd be legal.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:25 am

Michael_M wrote:For example, you cannot take a 'leader' variant unless you have 2 other ships that are not leader variants. <snip>

So in my SFB set, these variants never got used, nor did the escorts or anything else. One or two ships per side is slow enough in SFB; add in carriers and escorts (and remember this is the only time you can use escorts) and we're talking a weekend to play the battle.

That's why FC is *sooooo* much better!!

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:23 pm

Scoutdad's answer to the original question and secondary question are both correct.

Also, please note that the S8 requirement for two "follower" ships is in order to take the *second* CC, not the first. So, these squadrons are all legal:
CC
CC, CA
CC, CA, CA, CC
So, you need the 2xCA to go with the first CC so you can bring the second CC. The first CC doesn't need the 2xCA to be there in the first place.

But, again, these rules don't explicitly exist in Federation Commander. They do implicitly exist, as they help form what can be used in published scenarios, but when doing your own battles, scenarios, and campaigns, these rules do not exist at all.

duxvolantis · Post by **duxvolantis** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:44 pm

mjwest wrote:Scoutdad's answer to the original question and secondary question are both correct.

Also, please note that the S8 requirement for two "follower" ships is in order to take the *second* CC, not the first. So, these squadrons are all legal:
CC
CC, CA
CC, CA, CA, CC
So, you need the 2xCA to go with the first CC so you can bring the second CC. The first CC doesn't need the 2xCA to be there in the first place.

But, again, these rules don't explicitly exist in Federation Commander. They do implicitly exist, as they help form what can be used in published scenarios, but when doing your own battles, scenarios, and campaigns, these rules do not exist at all.

We've always treated it as cheeseball to load up on leader variants even though it is legal and try to adhere to the SFB rules for this. But then we also play in a "historical" campaign and command ships and leader variants are frankly not always available.

I find it funner to play a hodge-podge squadron or something reasonably historical (like a D5Q or F5Q) than to try to sqeeze the maximum number of phaser 1s (or whatever) into X points.

Michael_M · Post by **Michael_M** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:32 am

Just to make sure I am clear, I would never (let me put this another way, NEVER) take multiple leader variants. What brought this question up was the FC (fast cruiser). I felt bad taking a DN and a FC however I have been taking the 3x class (CM's or Cruisers) with a leader about 1/2 the time.

In this case, I wanted to see what a DN could do but did not want to take 2 destroyers with them. It was an experiment to see how things work (since this was the 5-7 games so far).