Plans for PDF ship packs on e23.

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:16 pm

So long as their presence here didn't pre-empt their eventual use for laminated cards in forthcoming modules, I'd be all for raiding the R-series books for viable ship classes.

In the case of Star Fleet, the DNF, CB, NLF, CM, FBD, PFF and FLG could be up for grabs; of those, the ones which constitute new ship classes would be fun not only for their own sake, but in terms of setting a precedent for what ship classes might be in later modules.

For the Klingons, there is an array of ISF ships which could be options; I can think of the D6I, D5I (or was it D7I?), G6, G4, G2, G2C, F5P, F5I, E4I, E4C, E3 and E3C, but don't recall how many more they might also have.

Plus, there are the SD7, D7W, FD5, HD5, D6L, E7D, F6B and D7WD; maybe the B8 as an oddball choice? Or whatever the Klingons called their conversions of those three impounded SparrowHawks, for that matter? Or one or more of the Diplomatic Cruisers (D7N, D6N and D5N)?

For the Romulans, the SUN, VUL, FSP, GHA, JH, FLG and HKR could be useful. Maybe a Kestrel-ification of the FD5, to add something new? Oh, and the regular KD5R, too. Ahem.

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:59 pm

Could someone tell me what the E7 actually was? I am more inclined to use (or battle) ships if I know more about them.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:09 pm

pinecone wrote:Could someone tell me what the E7 actually was? I am more inclined to use (or battle) ships if I know more about them.

The E7 was an E5 with some "wings" added on to make it into a cruiser. It is a "tinker-toy" type ship that was a failed design. Yet, it is kinda cool, too.

gar1138 · Post by **gar1138** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:34 pm

mjwest wrote:
pinecone wrote:Could someone tell me what the E7 actually was? I am more inclined to use (or battle) ships if I know more about them.
The E7 was an E5 with some "wings" added on to make it into a cruiser. It is a "tinker-toy" type ship that was a failed design. Yet, it is kinda cool, too.

The E7 was in Communique #19 and the E5 was in Communique #20.

Garrett

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:53 pm

Thanks Gar and Mike! however...

What was the E5? I know where the ship card is, but again I don't really know what the ship is for.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:06 pm

The E5 was an attempt to make a usable frigate that was better than the E4 using existing "parts". It has the boom of an F5, the hull of an E4, and the single engine of a D5. It was, of course, considered a failure.

Interestingly, it is a great squadron/fleet ship, as it had Ph-1s and FX disruptors, and could turn and keep up with the big boys. But, it was a crappy patrol (aka "duel") ship as it had no redundancy. One punch and it is hollowed out.

The E5, and its big brother the E7, are "tinker toy" ships that were attempts to create combat effective star ships at bargain basement prices using existing parts and systems. Neither design worked out particularly well, though the E5 had some redeeming qualities. Both are "historical footnotes" with design problems, but were also interesting in their own way.

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:44 am

But yet... there were so many E5 and E7 variants. How is that possible if there were so few of them?

OGOPTIMUS · Post by **OGOPTIMUS** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:18 am

I can't seem to find any of the variants right now in main products, just the K variant to the E5.

The only place you might find the answer is in the Class History article in CL35, which also contains some variants (perhaps the ones that you are talking about).

Bear in mind that many variants are conjectural, and if the E5 or E7 had been approved in place of another ship in the regular production line, and really would only come into play if that were the case. In that case, the variants would have been designed and perhaps even built. This information is also provided for player campaigns.

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:48 am

Remember, SFB is full of variants, conjectural ships, never built ships, etc. The rules are different there. For one thing, there are no battleships, except the B-10. Federation Commander is its own beast.

DirkSJ · Post by **DirkSJ** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:15 am

Shinanygnz wrote:Is Andromedan (or ISC) Attack on the cards (pun intended)? If not, an Andro pack would be nice for stuff like the Dominatrix ( what a name for a ship ) and the other DOM/INT/COQ non-BoM variants plus the Viper.

Other than the DDL and scout/fighter/tug variants I can't find any other ISC ships in my SFB collection that are not already laminated in FC. It's also possible that I just don't have some pack or set that had them....

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:55 am

Here are the promised Klingon and Romulan lists. Note that these are just lists of available ships. Unlike the Federation, there is no struggle to get to 12 ships for either. Also, the only "new" class I am including is the CCH/CB class. I am ignoring any others. I am also ignoring HDWs, as Steve mentioned putting them in their own PDF packs.

Klingon: B9, B8, C9, D7W, D7D, SD7, D6J, FDW, RKL, D5L, D5J, F6, F6B, F5D, F5J, E7, E6, E5, E5D, E4D, E4J, E3, G2.

Wow. I am sure I missed a couple, which means there could be two Klingon packs if that's what Steve wanted to do ...

Romulan: DMH, MGH, OMH, KH, RGK, SPJ, SPL, SKE, JH, SEE, K10R, KCR, K7R, KE7, KWR*, KDR, KFR, K5D, KE5, K4R, K4D, VUL.

If Gorn/ISC Attack is to be done, then I would like to see the DMH, K7R, KDR, and VUL saved for that. Those four deserve laminated cards.

[*] I believe this is the K-D5W-R. In addition, there are also the other "W" ships, including the K-D7W-R and the K-F5W-R. So that is really two more ships than listed above.

[Edit: Forgot the Regalhawk! Now on the list.]

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:15 am

Mike, I think you have missed the D7D (four-drone variant of the D7) which was featured in communique some time ago.

DMH = Demonhawk? If so, I agree that the Demonhawk and Vulture deserve their own laminated cards. And the Klingon-Romulan D7 and D5 too.

I think the K-F5W-R is in a recent Captain's Log, that would be worth including.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:31 am

Crap. I had D7D on my list, but must have missed it when I was reordering them to try and put them in some kind of "size" order. I did mean to included it. (I have added it to the other message.)

Yes, DMH is the Demonhawk. The nice thing is that there are so many candidates that it is really easy to keep those four in reserve (DMH, VUL, K7R, KDR), yet still provide a very strong group of ships.

And I did note the K-F5W-R at the bottom of my post. (Along with the hypothetical K-D7W-R that I am not sure exists or not.)

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:32 pm

I like the idea of "variant packs" and would probably buy them. Here are some more Fed ships to use:

CAD
CHA
CLD
PDD

Also, the D7E would be a possibility for the klinks.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:45 pm

pinecone wrote:I like the idea of "variant packs" and would probably buy them. Here are some more Fed ships to use:
CAD
CHA
CLD
PDD
Also, the D7E would be a possibility for the klinks.

A couple of points:
- The D7E, CAD, CLD, and (unmentioned) GSC are all out because they have special sensors. Steve unequivocally said "no BoM". That means no special sensors. That means they are out. (This is specifically why there are no survey ships or large drone ships in any of the lists I made.)
- I tried to not list completely rejected designs that were never produced. At least small quantities of the E5 and E7 were made. The PDD (and COR and IPL) failed. Remember, none of those ships were worth including in a real SFB product; why would they be worth making in FC? The successful design, the PFF, is in the list.
- OK, I have no idea what the CHA is. Can't find it anywhere. If it is not a completely new class (e.g. CWF, CWH, CCH), does not contain BoM technology (e.g. sensors, fighters), and was actually built in at least token numbers, then I guess we can add it to the list.