I agree, FC should be FC no matter if you are playing it at home, on FCOL, or in the tournament. This was not a tournament rule change proposal. I don't think this is just a tournament issue. I think this is needed in the normal game. Consider: the tournament map is fixed, which really should be favouring launched plasma, which it doesn't. Standard rules say plasma must be on a location map, which is much larger. If launched plasma doesn't work in the tournament, then the problem exists in regular FC too.My concern is that there should be no "special tournament rules". If Sabot is needed for tournament, then it is needed in the normal game. I really, really do not want to see FC turn into SFB in the sense that tournament SFB and "real" SFB are different animals, often to the exclusion of the other. I do not want to see that for FC.
Tournament thoughts
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Terry. Are we getting routine tournament feedback that shows Gorns and Roms "can't" win with meaningful sample sizes? There isn't much in the way of FC tournaments in Seattle.terryoc wrote:I agree, FC should be FC no matter if you are playing it at home, on FCOL, or in the tournament. This was not a tournament rule change proposal. I don't think this is just a tournament issue. I think this is needed in the normal game. Consider: the tournament map is fixed, which really should be favouring launched plasma, which it doesn't. Standard rules say plasma must be on a location map, which is much larger. If launched plasma doesn't work in the tournament, then the problem exists in regular FC too.My concern is that there should be no "special tournament rules". If Sabot is needed for tournament, then it is needed in the normal game. I really, really do not want to see FC turn into SFB in the sense that tournament SFB and "real" SFB are different animals, often to the exclusion of the other. I do not want to see that for FC.
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terryoc wrote:Consider: the tournament map is fixed, which really should be favouring launched plasma
Consider also that a hard 'real time' limit is a penalty to multi turn armers, being a bigger penalty the more turns something takes to arm, and being a bigger penalty for seekers that take time to travel and hit. 1 turn weapns can be sure they have the ability to fire an average of 1/turn, plasma might only get 1 launch over 5 turns unless they fire early (even though they may not really be in a good position for it), and even after doing that they can't be absolutely sure that they'll get a turn 5 for a second launch, or that they will have the time to set up a useful second launch.
I don't know how many turns got played on average in the last tourney, but in the tourney style games we've played it is rare to get a meaningful second plasma launch simply due to time limit.
In a normal game the plasma player can be more patient, for example launch one might force the HET, and a second launch will not have to contend with that. You can't rely on getting that second launch with a real time limit.
Changing to a turn limit rather than time limit might help, at least then it could be set to ensure every one will know how many shots they have the potential for, and exactly how many turns they have to plan for. 6/7 turns would allow 2 turners to reasonably get 3 volleys and plasma 2 volleys.
Uh, guys?
If you say the Plasma users get a 40-speed plasma, then you have to give those facing it wild weasels. Otherwise it's just not fair.
I'm in the middle of playing the scenario Refiner's Fire right now, and if there had been 40 speed plasmas I would have already lost, despite a lot of bad moves my opponent had made. But I have actually succeded in evening the odds of the battle.
And on that note, one of the bad moves my opponent made was not bolting his plasma. Again, if he had done that I would have been in serious trouble. But he didn't, and that's the main reason why I'm almost ahead. Plasma Bolts (especially carronades) are worth using for sure.
Plasma might not hit that often, but the threat of it keeps the enemy running. That alone makes plasma worth it.
Note this is (almost) the exact same post as I put on the Thread "Faster Plasma," but I felt it was important to put here too.
If you say the Plasma users get a 40-speed plasma, then you have to give those facing it wild weasels. Otherwise it's just not fair.
I'm in the middle of playing the scenario Refiner's Fire right now, and if there had been 40 speed plasmas I would have already lost, despite a lot of bad moves my opponent had made. But I have actually succeded in evening the odds of the battle.
And on that note, one of the bad moves my opponent made was not bolting his plasma. Again, if he had done that I would have been in serious trouble. But he didn't, and that's the main reason why I'm almost ahead. Plasma Bolts (especially carronades) are worth using for sure.
Plasma might not hit that often, but the threat of it keeps the enemy running. That alone makes plasma worth it.
Note this is (almost) the exact same post as I put on the Thread "Faster Plasma," but I felt it was important to put here too.
You MIGHT have been in trouble. Bolts are terribly inaccurate for a massively expensive 3 turn arming weapon. Chances are very good a lot of bolts would have missed.pinecone wrote:And on that note, one of the bad moves my opponent made was not bolting his plasma. Again, if he had done that I would have been in serious trouble. But he didn't, and that's the main reason why I'm almost ahead. Plasma Bolts (especially carronades) are worth using for sure.
And that there is part of the problem. If you spend an arm, two legs and 3 years arming a weapon you should have a decent chance of it hitting.
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Savedfromwhat
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My idea was to give 'sabot' plas torps an extra hex of movement in Sub-Pulse 1 of each impulse in flight; that way they would get that speed advantage over 'speed-32' ships and also mean that they stood a better chance of hitting a fleeing ship.
I was also thinking they should be limited to Romulans, as Gorns and Feds get the carronade already and the ISC has access to PPD-armed ships.
I was also thinking they should be limited to Romulans, as Gorns and Feds get the carronade already and the ISC has access to PPD-armed ships.
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