Franz Joseph expansion

[djdood]

FedCom doesn't really have a "timeline" like SFB does. If a ship is "in the game" (via a printed ship card, Briefing page, or Communique), then it's available to use in any session and any scenario that allows free-choice of ships.

Obviously, those ships would be at a potential disadvantage against GW-era opponents (designed-later is usually designed-better), but their point-values should make balance possible.

[Dal Downing]

Do the CAR, Original DN and 4-photon DD make it to the General War era?

They seem out place with neither Phaser 3s nor Drones.

Just to expand on what Dj said the simple answer is yes as the Various Refits ( R, +, G, a...) were applied and beame standard new ships were built with the refits already incorporated.

The CA went through several refits before it became the CA in the Main FedCom game which is actually a CARa+ in SFB. Fed Com got rid of the refit concept (Until the push for the middle years muddled it up) and just called the ships what they were. So the DN(FJ) would have been refitted as time went on to look just like the one in the main Game, (which in SFB is called a DNG and if it kept surviving eventally it would become a DNH)

[djdood]

I assumed Jim understood the refit-tree for the ships, but it's good of Dal to back-fill for my omission.

[JimDauphinais]

Thanks for the posts. I guess my real question is whether in the historic timeline (and I realize we are likely looking at SFB as the reference and this level of detail even in SFB may be undefined) there is any clarity in regard to whether any of the CAs, DNs and DDs may have still been at the CAR, Original DN and four-photon DD level of refit, respectively, at the start of the General War. And if I take the posts together, I think I am hearing that, yes, a few of the Fed CAs, DNs and DDs may still have been at the CAR, Original DN and four-photon DD levels of refit, respectively, at the start of the General War.

[Stibbons]

Oddly enough it's seeing the Booster 91 that made me buy FC as well (after a long absence from SFB from the days when I bought the 1983 boxed set). My "cheap" route was to buy the Academy pack, Briefing 2 and Booster 92. Upgraded to Graduation and managed to get both Klingon Attack and Orion Attack on sale at a games shop shortly after. Will probably be picking up Romulan Space today (payday).

[Kang]

Oddly enough it's seeing the Booster 91 that made me buy FC as well (after a long absence from SFB from the days when I bought the 1983 boxed set). My "cheap" route was to buy the Academy pack, Briefing 2 and Booster 92. Upgraded to Graduation and managed to get both Klingon Attack and Orion Attack on sale at a games shop shortly after. Will probably be picking up Romulan Space today (payday).

Interesting, that. SVC has said that the 90-series boosters are not seen as a good product idea; maybe this will be mitigated a little if people are buying FC because of these boosters. Ok, I realise it will not completely mitigate, but every little helps as they say.

[mjwest]

On the which ships to use, the general idea is that ships described for use in the "Middle Years" are only used in the Middle Years. Ships described for use in the main setting are only used in the main setting. Briefing #2 lists those ships that were used in both settings. For the ships asked about (Middle Years CA, CAR, Middle Years DN, four-photon DD), it is general assumed that all had been converted to their final forms in the main setting.

That said, a ship card is a ship card, and you can use whatever you want. Just be aware that if they were not intended to work together, you could get some unexpected results.

On the issue of the 9x Boosters, please understand that Booster 91 is different from the rest. Booster 91 has special appeal that would probably justify its existence irrespective of any of the other 9x Boosters. It is Booster 92-95 that Steve is really talking about.

[JimDauphinais]

Thanks Mike. So, "historically" only the DDG, DDL, Scout and Tug (the latter in its more expensive point value configuration) are main FC era ships. The rest from Booster #91 are Middle-Years ships (or "late" Middle-Years ships). However, they can all obviously be used together if one doesn't care about the "history".

[mjwest]

Jim,

Yes, you got it right. That is all correct.

[djdood]

If you were going to try and build a campaign or other framing-structure, you could expect a degree of mixture. There would always be some overlap between "eras" (some ships not yet refitted, some in the shipyards, some already refitted, some being built to the new standard). F&E could provide some guidance on that.

In the more "structured" SFU (as laid out in excruciating detail in SFB and F&E), there would likely be a token few lingering DDM's at the same time that most were already refitted to four-photon DD's, and a few had begun conversion to DDL and DDG's (not to mention the one DDF fast destroyer and the various DDE escorts). The pace of the refits likely picks up as the war-clouds gather and rolls in once the GW starts.

However, it's all kind of "moot" for the pick-up game friendly nature of FedCom.

[Ravenhull]

Pretty much, that's what the Federation had when the Klingons crossed the border. The CA+ and CAR+ were being deployed as soon as ships went in for refits, but I would hazard to guess that less than half had them on the day of the invasion.

The DN is an odd case. Originally, the idea of a DN was that they were built big to withstand damage and have room for the C&C facilities. Most first generation dreadnoughts in all the empires were barely better armed than their CC counterparts, though the extra power made a huge difference. With the Four Powers War a decade before the General War, and the more militant mindset of the races in question, the Western Powers (Klingon, Lyran, Kzinti and Hydrans) had taken the next step in increasing DN firepower by about 50%. The Federation's habit of pacifism and a general opinion that their DN was 'good enough' slowed this down. For the most part, the DNG was not deployed until well after the war was in full swing.

You should realize that the Federation entered the war on the backside of the martial curve. What saved them was that they had the shear economy capable of financing both a lot of not quite good enough ships to hold the line, but also the money to pay for the research to turn those ships into some of the best in the galaxy.

[pinecone]

Well, I personally think that the fed DN was good enough. The huge power boost made it more than capable of dealing with D7s or their refits. And to be honest, I always found those war based ships "cramped" in a way.

[Hod K'el]

Okay...so, why not do a time line for production of each ship and show when the changes came about on that same time line so everyone is looking at the same page. If it was not made, how are you taking it in this particular campaign or scenario? That way, you get to produce a product that everyone needs for each race. (yeah, its late I am thinking outloud...very dangerous)

[mjwest]

Right now, Federation Commander has a nice "timeline" with exactly three times on it: Early Years, Middle Years, and General War (aka the main setting). Early Years ships are used in the Early Years. Middle Years ships are used in the Middle Years. General War ships are used in the General War. That is pretty much the granularity used in Federation Commander.

And for the Middle Years and General War, this exact information is given in Briefing #2.

[Falconer]

Funny how the SFU is basically based on a TV episode that pitted a MY ship against an EY ship, heh!