Omega Conversion Project

[Nerroth]

I don't have much time to post right now, so I'll have to reply to some points here, and others later on...

Neroth,

Two 'r's!

I enjoyed your power reviews.

Thanks!

I might go over the Loriyill eventually, too - I'd like to get a better idea of what they might expect porting over. (It's ironic how relatively easy the Collective's technology is to port, when you think of the hoops the Souldra will need jumped through...)

Tachyon missiles
So several points
1 I generally like your one version of each speed /era although I would specifically allow later era ships to pick the earlier era versions at that cost.

Oh, that shouldn't be an issue - not least since the 'standard' free missiles don't change either.

2 Anti-tractor I think this needs to be built in I am in favour of a tractor attempt only works on a die roll of 1-3 (or 1-4) rather than having increasing energy cost to attach the tractor as it is simpler than having different anti-tractor costs for different missiles. But perhaps that too muc of a change to the rules?

Maybe just try the negative tractor rules for now, and make the defender pay extra Tokens to get a lock.

4. My take on TM designs

Standard:
Speed 16/24 (which would speed-20 in SFB round up/down to?)
Explosion 8
Armour 12
Point Value 0

Armour is actually 8 and explosion 8 in the rules.
I would make the base missile 24 with those stats as the SFB standard drone is speed 20 and gets a boost to speed 24. But that is then in a sense better the early era missile so perhaps have it speed 16 and give it explosion of 12 (at least as good as a Alphan drone then) and armour of 10 so actually a lot tougher than a Alphan drone and give it anti-tractor-1
-I wonder if it might be better listed as anti-tractor 2 indicating that 2 power is required to tractor it rather than 1.

I made the speed and armour fixes - and 24 should be fine.

(Omega did enter the Middle Years seventy years before most of Alpha did, and those missiles are still relatively rare compared to drones, so I think it should stand for now.)

Hmm, I'm not sure on the way the tractor cost should be listed, but maybe.

Oh, should the 'free' point of negative tractor be added in FC?)
-Yes please-

Okay then.

M-era:
Speed 16
Explosion 20
Armour 16
Point Value 3

(Given the technological limitations of the era, it's actually easier to settle on a not-half-bad choice, in my view at least. You can't really give it too much in terms of speed or explosion strength, so piling on the armour is as valid a choice as any...)
Note anti-tractor 2 (or 3 meaning it needs 3 power to tractor)

You can't increase the negative tractor on a TM until 2571, which is beyond the scope of the M-era...

T-era:
Speed 24
Explosion 24
Armour 12
Point Value 4.5

(Missiles can go up to size-10 in this era, as can both speeds and explosion strengths... but there's not enough room to go around. So, a missile which takes that step up to speed 24 can just about squeak a heaver payload and set of armour.)

Because I think the -L era missile is too explosive heavy and because I think you have mis-costed this one. (Size 10 +0.5 speed 32 +1.5 and -4 size leaves 6 24 explosive +2.0 and -4 size leaves only 2 size for armour giving armour 12 +0.5 and -2 size) This would be speed 26 and 4.5 bpv.

I propose changing this to armour 14 and cost 5

I rounded the 26 down to 24, but there is not enough room on the missile for armour 14 as it stands.

Indeed, to fit even one additional point of negative tractor, you'd need to go to either armour-10 or explosion-20.

L-era:
Speed 32
Explosion 32
Armour 8
Point Value 6

(Late era missiles can go to size-12, and fit even more powerful engines and warheads, but something has to give. So, this missile trades in even more armour for the sake of an even larger warhead, and the jump to speed 32. Thus, the missile evolves from a slow-ish slug to a sleek and powerful rocket!)

With speed 36 propulsion you only get 4 space points to make a speed 32 missile this gives only explosive 28 and armour 8.

I propose speed 32 explosion 28 armour 12 and anti-tractor 2 (requires 3 to tractor)
Cost of 6

This makes all but the -M era misssile slightly better for than the points than their Omegan SFB equilivents but at the cost of thier opponents knowing exactly what the missile is once its speed is declared (bar the base missile and the -M missile)

Paul

With the 1-point upgrade to a size-12 missile after 2588, the use of the six-space propulsion-36 engine leaves you 6 spaces for everything else - such as a jump to explosion-32.

Plus, for FC purposes, you can round up to speed-32 from, say, speed-30.

Though, if you go to explosion-28, you'd have room for either armour-10, or 2 more negative tractor points (since after 2577, each negative tractor pod only takes up 1/2 a space on the missile).

But then, I dunno if FC needs more than one negative tractor on the missile anyway...

While I don't overly mind rounding missile speeds up or down to match FC, the actual layout of the missile is something I want to echo the options the SFB TMs give you - so if a missile is 'overweight' in SFB, I wouldn't want to see it in FC.



Oh, and one last thing - should there be some kind of additional indicator for Omega seeking weapons? There are so many weapons to port, I'm starting to run out of letters in the alphabet...


(I was thinking of, for example, (2O1A) and so forth for direct-fire weapons, (2O2A) for drone-like seekers, and (2O3A) for plasma torpedo-alikes.)

[DKeith2011]

I might go over the Loriyill eventually, too - I'd like to get a better idea of what they might expect porting over. (It's ironic how relatively easy the Collective's technology is to port, when you think of the hoops the Souldra will need jumped through...)

Not so much really unless the Dark Matter Damage Procedure (DMDP) is included. Personally, I would like to see it included since it provides a good part of the flavor for the Souldra, but I can certainly see giving it up for simplicity's sake.

The rules for Dark Warp (DW) can be ignored completely since FC doesn't track specific energy types.

Dark Matter Pulsars are just a kind of phaser. Without the DW arming requirement or the DMDP the only rule change needed is to limit the range of the Heavy DMP to the 25 hex FC standard direct-fire maximum.

Dark Matter Torpedoes are just a kind of plasma. Without the DW arming requirement or the DMDP the only difference is how phasers damage the torpedo. The pseudo-DMT is ignored since there are no pseudos in FC.

Dimensional Phasing is just a kind of cloaking. A few minor tweaks to those rules should do the job nicely.

Dark Matter Bombs (DMB) go away completely since there are no t-bombs or mines in FC.

Soul Shields pose an interesting question. Since 'housekeeping' costs have been removed in FC, does that mean the Souldra get all their shield boxes free of charge like the regular ships or will they still have to pay for them with energy? As for allocating the boxes to certain faces, that's no different in FC than in SFB, the beginning of the turn is the beginning of the turn in both games.

Soul Shards will probably be the trickiest thing to convert. I have a few ideas for the little beasts but nothing solid yet.

[Nerroth]

Ah, but the Shards are the key!

They need to have some kind of alternate rules for FC, but without them, the Souldra would simply not be, well... soul-dra-ining.

(At least it shouldn't be too hard to work out the planet-draining side of things.)

And at least there are boarding parties, at least, for the Souldra to drain - but maybe the effect on the crew might be represented by having some kind of disabling 'drain' effect on hull boxes, command spaces, and other parts of the ship which would have some kind of sentient life within.



Regarding Soul Shields, they might depend on how much the kind of power that Souldra ships have - which is a lot - is predicated on the Souldra player having to use that power to pay for shielding.



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Speaking of power, I figured I'd put a power review of the Loriyill and Souldra here, to help with the comparison.


Surprisingly, the Loriyill Collective only have 6 ships thus far published which would be set for vanilla FC - but can they make the most of the classes available to them?


The DN is smaller than most rival dreadnoughts, with a 1.25 MC cutting down on the power requirements - which is just as well, since it comes with 46+4 to spare. Thankfully, all of the weapons the ship has are on the cheap side, and happen to be mounted on a ship with a turn mode of B and nice-thick shields.

It's quite the flitter-er, but might have something of a glass jaw power-wise.


There are two CAs, one with a heavier fireball loadout than the other. Perhaps the fireball ship looks more like the pre-phaser ships the Collective might have used against the Souldra in an earlier era. Unless they had some pre-phaser primary weapon back then.

Both have the same power level, at 29+3, which isn't too bad on ships with MC .75 and a turn mode of A. So, they can keep up their speeds, which is just as well, really.


Next step down is the DD, which has a MC of .5, 21+2 power (slightly ahead of the Omega curve, but less than the Auroran DD) and a turn mode of AA. Nice and flitty, then.


Now, on the face of it, the FFL shouldn't be too badly off - it has the same turn mode as the destroyer and frigate, and comes with 15+3 power. However, while its MC of .25 lets it run well enough, it's a relative drop in ability compared to rival Omega frigates. It's going to have to be that little more careful when dealing with even Trobrin frigates, let alone those of more power-blessed empires.


Ditto for the FF, which has 13+2 - less than the Trobrin equivalents, which aren't saddled with that 1/3 MC anymore.



It seems that the bigger Loriyill ships should be ok, but the smaller types might need to watch out.


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I've selected seven Souldra ships for consideration - one of which I went for mainly because of the unique 'nature' of Souldra logistics, and another that might need its array of special sensors turned into something else, B2-GSC-like.


I said I was worried before about the consequence of letting the Souldra get those soul shields for 'free' - let's see what the ships have to weigh against.


Before I start, it's worth noting that by the time of the Invasions, certain powers such as the FRA and Mæsrons were fielding the likes of war cruisers and so forth - ships not published in SFB yet. So, it's possible that the Souldra designs are supposed to only be rivalled power-wise by that generation of enemy ship or later.

Also, I wonder if it might be worth considering following the Hydran example of thinning out the number of Shards each ship may take - but it might be too early to decide (since the Shards themselves leave so many questions to answer).


So, on to the ships. The biggest weapon known to be in the Souldra armada, the DN has power to burn. Even without anything like a reactor (no Souldra ship has such) its 'dark warp' engines are still big enough to contribute to an unhealthy 62+8 power. And its weapons aren't much more costly than the Loriyill's. And it has eight Shards.

Talk about trouble.


The CA is loaded, too. 40+4 power, six Shards, and a bag of tricks to ruin your day.


One of the most feared lone raiders during the Invasions, the CL is bringing 32+2 power (whoa!) and four Shards. The shift to .75 isn't much of a limit either, since it's still left with loads of power to burn.


The smaller DD is heavy for a destroyer, with the same MC as the Wraith light cruiser - but then, with 29+3 power and four Shards, that might not be something to cheer about if you're facing one.


Even the small FF, which is really closer to other peoples' DDs (coming with a MC of .5) still has 23+2 power - more than the Auroran destroyer! Oh, and it also has 4 Shards. Nice...


The forward-ranging SR, the only Souldra ship (just about) available for the M-era, might be somewhat lightly armed - but it still has two Shards and 37+2. Not too bad, but it might have more fun in BoM using all those special sensors. It would drive most M-era ships in Omega nuts, though.


Finally, the TN - the closest thing the Souldra have to, well, any kind of logistical transport. You'd think having 38+2 and two Shards would be overkill for a flying repository of stolen life-energy, but there you go...


The Souldra are going to be really fast and nasty in FC, which sounds close to how these nightmarish beings are supposed to be - but I have concerns over whether the Loriyill can hold their own against them as well as they might in SFB.


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While I was working on those two, I figured I'd go and look over the third part of a trio I like to consider the 'Songs of Fire and Darkness' arc of Omega history - the ill-fated Singer Protectorate.

The Singers were sown as having two generations' worth of ships - the relatively weaker hulls they tried (and failed) to hold off the Koligahr with, and the Loriyill-influenced ships they used in the short time between the securing of independence from the Solidarity and the scouring of the Singer home world by the Souldra.

However, only one M-era Singer ship is in SFB, though hopefully the light frigate will show up eventually.

Either way, the Singers seem to rely more on large reactor and battery banks, which has an impact on how much you can or cannot do speed-wise in SFB. That has a varying impact on the way an FC version might fly, in comparison.


Of the later-generation ships, the DN is the biggest, and they only got around to building one of them before the Fall in 2594. It's not too badly off in FC terms, with 50+10 power, but not quite outstanding either.


Outstanding, however, might be the word to describe the BC! With 42+8 power, it has even more under the trunk than a Souldra Spectre heavy cruiser. Shame the Souldra struck when they did, before the Singers had the chance to build enough to defend themselves with.


Something of an interim ship, the GC packs 40+9 (yes, 9!) power, though it will still have to be judicious in terms of actually using all of the systems it has on board. Still, it makes a mean defender, and has options at speed.


The first ship of its size built post-independence, the CA might not have some of the more esoteric Loriyill toys aboard, but is still a dangerous ship in FC terms. It's got 36+8 power, which is still the same overall as the Souldra CA, though the latter ship doesn't need to rely on its batteries so much.


A ship from a somewhat older time, the CL really needs to make use of those batteries to keep up. It's got 23+8 on what shifts to a MC .75 hull, but the weapons suite is a bit weak compared to the later hulls. With a ship that fast, though, I wonder what the M-era Koligahr ships in FC might make of it.


The smaller hulls really need to rely on their batteries more than most. The DD has 20+6, which looks like a lot, but only when the Singer player can keep those batteries filled.


Similarly, the FF has 15+5, which is more than your average, but again only if the batteries are handled well.


The Singers are gonna be a challenge. They may be faster than in SFB thanks to the stacks of reactors, but the over-reliance on batteries may clip their wings somewhat if they aren't careful.


Although, with the kind of ships they were developing near the end, it's perhaps not surprising the Souldra waxed them when they did.


Oh, also - I guess this means I might need to think about converting Singer weapons, too?

[pauls]

Nerroth,

You probably have the right of it in keeping the TM strictly within SFB construction limits BUT allowing the odd bump in speed to fit the 8,16,24,32 limitations of FC.

One point on anti-tractor the base missile comes with 1 point of anti-tractor you only have to pay (and find space) for additional ones.

I was trying to get an even progression of greater speed bigger warhead and less armour as time went on so maybe 20, 24, 28 warhead and 14 ,12 and 10 armour might be a way to go with anti-tractor pods or just unused space making up the difference?

Sorry about the missing r

Pal

[Nerroth]

Well, if you lower the explosion from 32 to 28, and sub in an armour increase, there's no more room at the inn for that negative tractor...

...but that's okay. For now.


Also, the above change would technically make the missile cost 5.75 points, which could be rounded up to 6 or left as-is.


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There are two significant trading powers I wanted to look at - which might be worth considering moving up the queue in terms of porting over.


Firstly, the amoeba-like members of the Bolosco Merchant Guilds. The adventurous Bolosco were keen to trade with whoever would accept their offers, and could be found across most of the Octant at their height.


Before I go into the ships, it's worth noting that most of them can take at least one pod, which usually reduces the turn mode by one level. However, not all pods might be ideal for Federation Commander.

I'd recommend sticking with the Large Battle, Self-Defence, Cargo and Support pods, and the Small Battle, Self-Defence, Cargo, Support and Transport pods, for now.

Also, the Bolosco must take the same type of phaser choice on each mount on a ship - but can have a different type of phaser on the pod (again, one type only). An historical option might be to give the ship Phaser-Rs, and the pod/s Phaser-Qs (no PQ2s, though).


In the absence of any rules for the immense Guildships the Bolosco arrived in our galaxy with, the largest unit currently on the table for them is the MD - and you'd want to have your own M.D. on standby once you run into one! Pod-less, it's got no less than 64+6 power, which would go to 70+6 with two small battle pods plugged in. It's the kind of ship you really don't want to catch you up close, either, since the Bolosco are king-blobs of the tractor auction.


The heavy cruiser-sized MC is no slouch, either. Pre-pod, it has 38+4 power, and can get another 6 reactors with a large battle pod. It's not even funny how good this ship would be up close.


Fortunately for those wishing to hassle the profits of the Guilds, the smaller hulls are less outstanding than the big guns, though pods can help. The next ship down is the GC, which comes with 26+4 power as standard, and shifts MC to .75. It can still take the same large battle pod of the MC, but unless the contract asks for the Bolosco to go into a fight, won't your Guild rather you be carrying more profit-carrying cargo?


The destroyer equivalent is the TS - which can only take a small pod. It's got 20+2 and a MC of .5, which isn't too bad, but might be weighted down if you want to make the most of the close-range tractor-based weaponry on board.


Further down is the EX, the smallest Bolosco ship able to carry a pod, in this case a small one, like the tradeship. It's only got 13+1, and while the shift to .25 might help a little, you won't pull off many tractor crushes with this thing even with a small battle pod.


Smallest of all is the XB - which can't take a pod at all. It's got 11+1 power, that you're pretty much stuck with - and unlike some of the bigger ships can't take any tachyon missiles to help keep trouble-makers away.


It seems that the Bolosco, as in SFB, will be weak in the smaller ships, ok-ish in the middle, and lethal in the upper tier. It'll be interesting trying to convert their unique tractor tech to the system, but for starters I'd maybe suggest that the tractor mode for IWTs only go as far as two hexes, which is still twice as far as your average FC tractor.


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The other well-known set of Omega traders come from the Qixa Amalgamate - a species of space-bunnies who had a tragic past with the Sigvirions, but who, um, bounced back once the Sigs were driven off of the home world.


Actually, since there are two types of Qixa ships - one type designed to stay in the Qixavalor Cloud, and another intended for trade beyond it. You could arguably stick with the three trading ships to begin with, if you wanted to leave things like terrain rules for the Cloud, the spark mode for gauss cannons, and energy spark rings aside for the time being.

Indeed, the ultra-warp missiles (speed-128 drones you have to pay to arm on the launching turn) could be somewhat simplified if only the three out-Cloud hulls are selected to start off with. Since all three would be T-era ships anyway, one could go ahead and give them the 'brick' (six points of damage, but no in-Cloud bonus) warhead, and save the standard and other warhead types for later.

Either way, I have the two categories of ships listed separately, for convenience's sake.


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The largest of the out-Cloud-er hulls is the cruiser-sized CT, which is not too bad for what it does. It's got 36+4 power, so it can certainly go places, and having the choice of Phaser-Ws, gauss cannons and 'brick' ultra-warp missiles certainly doesn't hurt.


The DDT has a healthy power level, too, with a 22+2 output, but it's fairly weak in terms of weapon loadout, without the flexibility of the CT to rely on.


The FFT is much worse-off, weapon-wise - so the 12+1 power on board is gonna be used to run, rabbit, run!

It's worth noting that all of the Qixa frigates are already MC .25, so like the Loriyill might be relatively disadvantaged compared to some making the transition.

The Qixa really ought to think about building some SC4 trade ships with UWM racks... so long as they go on ships which can afford to arm them at speed, that is.


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Things are somewhat different within the Qixavalor Cloud. The largest hull the Qixa have there is the DN - which has 50+8 power on board. Not a whole lot, really, but while it might be somewhat weak were it caught in normal space, it's significantly more dangerous doing what it's supposed to do, i.e. defending the Amalgamate within the Cloud proper. To give an idea of this, its point cost in 'normal' space is 220... but it jumps to 275 when in the Cloud!

(All Qixa ships are more expensive in the Cloud, by the way.)


The CCG is not a bad ship for what it does, either. It's got the same power output (36+4) as the trading cruiser, but is more tailored to in-Cloud combat. Like all in-Cloud Qixa ships, however, it really requires careful use of the local terrain features to get the most out of the unit.


The standard heavy cruiser of the Qixa defence force, the CG has 32+4, more than enough to let it run spark rings around most intruding warships.


The Qixa have no light cruiser at present, so the next step down is their standard DD. With 18+2, it's not got the kind of power reserves that the trading destroyer has, but it can do a lot more with the power it does have... again, in its native environment.


Heading up frigate squadrons, the FFL clocks in at 14+1, but again has cheap weapons that are useful in the Cloud.


Similarly, the standard FF is 12+1 - and you don't wanna be taking this thing out of the Cloud much, if you can help it.


In all, the trading Qixa really depend on the options of the CT, for the time being, in terms of being able to rely on anything other than raw speed to handle a tricky situation. On the other hand, the defence force Qixa are not gonna have a lot of luck trying to launch expeditionary forces any time soon... but would be a handful when defending their homes.

[Nerroth]

There are two more empires I wanted to look over - ones which both interact with those already shown, and which have at least the type of phasers already covered.


With these, and the ones already mentioned, I think we'd have enough to try and flesh out for now. But that's just my own thought on it.



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First up is the Probr Revolution. AN uplifted species of salamanders for whom the song 'Money's Too Tight to Mention' might have some meaning, the Probr are, generally, cheapskates.

They get around this by building their ships in modular increments, and plugging the centre hull (or hulls) together with varying types of wings to fill out their fleets.


Now, for starters, I might suggest forgetting about the whole dropping the wings rule - it's no more needed in FC than things like boom and saucer separation are.

The rule about the decreased turn mode for ships losing their wing engines might be ok to keep, however.

Also, the HEAT and TA rules shouldn't be quite so bad to hammer out.

And of the ships available, I'm leaving out the medium cruiser for now - it's oddball MC (7/8 in SFB) might need some thought put into it regarding what it should be in FC, and the Probr hate flying it anyway.


The largest ship at the Probr's disposal is the DN - which is made up of three large centre hulls plugged together, and bracketed by two large wings.

Its power rating is 48+6, and its MC is 1.5 - which means that you might not be able to go too fast with it if you want to make use of those HEAT and TI weapons. Speed 16 should give you plenty of options, though.


Next down are the two CA variants - each with two of the same centre hulls as the DN, but flanked by medium-sized wings. One is loaded for general combat, the other gives you more TAs to play with.

Both have 34+4 at MC 1, which is alright, as Omega cruisers go, but might be happier left at speed 16 than rushed around at speed 24.

Let the accentuated HEATs do the running for you!


Skipping the medium cruiser brings us to the DD, which has only one of the centre hulls of the DN/CA, and with two smaller wings. 20+2 and a MC of .5 isn't so bad, though still doesn't leave a lot extra at speed 24.


Both of the FF variants use the destroyer wings on a smaller centre hull, and have the same 14+1 power and shift to .25 - and like with the CAs, one variant gives you accentuation capability. However, said variant really ought not be patrol alone, and works better when squadroned with a few vanilla frigates.


The Probr won't like being too close, since you can't bolt their HEATs, and won't like being too fast, since you won't like using up their power reserves - so a medium-speed, medium-range engagement might suit them best.


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Raised to sentience by the ursine Ka-ma-ty-u - the last survivors of whom now residing on the home world - the jellyfish-like members of the Koligahr Solidarity like building bubbles... and ships made out of them.

They only have 5 ships which might work in FC for the time being, and one of those is a less-favoured variant. But will it be enough to serve the needs of the Solidarity?


Let's see. The big ship, the DN, has 50+6 power on a MC 1.5 hull - so in the same ballpark as other Omega early dreadnoughts. Enough to hold a few of those anti-matter cannons and get them up close - though the delay in re-firing ACs might put a premium on taking care which cannons you fire at the end of one turn , and which you leave for the start of the next one.

Doing that might help ease your power requirements, though - assuming your opponent doesn't scupper your plans...


The CA comes in a regular model and in a variant which is heavy on the anti-matter cloud generators. Both have 35+4 power, which is a good Omega average, though the defence cruiser variant might be best kept for fights against tachyon missile-chucking foes.


The DD is at 19+2 and MC .5, which is not exemplary, but not the worst deal either. Still, so long as you go easy on the ACG, you should be able to keep your options open at speed.


Last is the PB, a fairly common unit found across Koligahr space. 15+2 is the same as the Trobrin bolt frigate, as is the move to .25 MC. More heavy weapon options than the Mæsron equivalent, but that might not be saying much...


The advantage of plasma-hurting microphasers and overload-able anti-matter cannons make things somewhat useful for Koligahr players looking to press the issue against HEAT-slinging Probr or implosion torp-heavy Trobrin, though bolt-heavy Trobrin might be another story, especially if you can't catch them on a turn he can't fast-load against you.

I'm not sure yet how much help the ACG might be in FC yet, though.

[pauls]

No posts this week so...

I thought I give a bit of thought to the two of the plasma weapons of the Omegan sector. The Trobrin Implosion Torpedo and the Probr HEAT.

Both have unique features that maybe difficult to translate into FC.

The Implosion Torpedo is the easier. It explodes either on entering the targets hex or on reaching range 1. The later point could be dropped if the idea is to generate a few differences as possible from the "standard" plasma torpedo rules. It is nice to keep as it has a different interaction with web for example.

Damage is reduced by number of hexes travelled this could be retained but would require individual hex counting for each warhead and a switch to per impulse would seem more in keeping with FC.

So they have 4 sizes light(L), medium(M), heavy(H) and Super heavy(SH)
with 16,24,32 and 48 starting warhead strength respectively. The SH is only on bases (I think as yet unpublished).

In terms of energy required the L is less than the alphan -F torp the M between -F and -G and the L the same as the -S torp. There are no bolting or fast load options.

So per impulse
(L) 14,10,6,2,0
(M) 22,18,14,10,6,2
(H) 30,26,22,18,14,10,6,2

The (M) and (H) have slightly longer legs than the comporable -G and -S torps but usually do a bit less damage. The (M) torp is probably the best bang per buck for the Trobrin. The (L) torp does have an advantage that it has 2 boxes on the ship diagram per launcher and if SFB rules are followed both need to be destroyed before the launcher is lost making them more survivable than other launchers.

HEAT torpedoes.
These are a trickier conversion as they have the ability to move at speed 64 (2 hexes per sub-pulse presumably) under certain circumstances.

I think I'll post separately after I have pondered on the HEAT some more!

[pauls]

OK HEAT plasma for the Probr

There are two ways to go with this in terms of adapting them for FC.

Minimum changes to current FC rules or a more complex version.

The simplest approach.

HEAT torpedoes are treated the same a other plasma torpedoes in FC.
Except.
It cost two power for each of three turns to arm. Or if fast laoded the second turn of arming costs 4 power. Unfired torpedoes are held for 1 power each.

Damage per impulse
16,16,12,8,4

Accentuation: The Probr has a device that makes their HEAT torpedoes more effective. If a target ship has been hit by a TA (target accentuator) on the previous impulse then one impulse is deducted for the purpose of warhead determination. e.g. a target gets hit by a TA the following impulse two HEAT torpedoes impact the ship one on the 6th impulse after launch the other after its 3rd. The damage is calculated as if 5 and 2 impulses had past so 16+4=20 before defensive fire is calculated.

A more complex version has the HEAT torpedeos travelling at a speed of 64 IF the torpedo is armed in accentuation mode. phasers effecting a HEAT requiring three rather than two phaser damage to reduce its warhead and perhaps allowing HEAT to change target after launch.

I am currently of the keep it simple design so haven't detailed the longer from.

[Nerroth]

It's worth noting that the Trobrin Deep Space Dreadnought has a super-heavy implosion torpedo launcher, so stats for the highest level of torp would be needed for it, too.

(The DSN also has 10 PR-1s, 4 PR-3s, 2 heavy implosion torps and 4 implosion bolt launchers! That thing is just scary...)


Given that the damage table is predicated on being at range one, I'd suggest sticking with it.



Regarding HEATs, I definitely agree with the idea of sticking with the increased resistance to damage (2:1 from PMs, 3:1 from other phasers, 4:1 from warp-tuned lasers etc) - but also, don't forget that accentuated torps have a different damage rate per impulse than normal HEATs would.

Its rate might be 12, 12, 9, 6, 3 - moving two hexes per sub-pulse.

[Nerroth]

Right, so.


I thought I'd do a quick run-through of some of the ships which have been looked at so far, and a couple which haven't as of right now. Then, we could perhaps get an idea of who needs what, both in terms of rules and in actual playtest time.


(Sigh, I wish I could do more of the latter... but if anyone does want to try these rules out with the SSDs, please post your feedback here!)


So, ships - not counting bases, or space needed for pods/modules, for now.

(EDIT: I've added listings for each era the ship is available in. M goes up to 2561, T from 2562-2591, and L from 2592 onwards. Oh, and I forgot the frignaught, too. Oops.)


Generic:
FS (M, T, L)
FL (M, T, L)
XB (M, T, L)
PL (M, T, L)

(4 ships)

Mæsron:
BB (T*, L)
DN (T, L)
CA (M, T, L)
CAF (M, T, L)
CBA (T, L)
CL (M, T, L)
FFN (T, L)
DD (M, T, L)
FF (M, T, L)
SR (M, T, L)
VBR (T, L)
FBS (M, T, L)

(12 ships)

*According to SFB, there was a lag between the year the ship's sections were built, and the later development of engine technology that might have made it work. In FC, assuming the BB is permitted in the first place, the ship might not be 'ready' for service until after 2592, but I don't know either way.

Iridani:
MW (T, L)
BG (M*, T, L)
GL (M, T, L)
CP (M, T, L)
BQ (M, T, L)
CR (M, T, L)
YW (M, T, L)
SL (M, T, L)
GLB (T, L**)
BQB (T, L**)
CRB (T, L**)
YWB (T, L**)

(12 ships)

*While the first brigantine was built in 2551, that ship technically never left Iridia. However, it's still possible that at least one other BG was built, and flown to Omega, prior to 2562. I guess.

**Historically, these variants were not really seen much outside of the Bonnaventure Quest, but it's possible other Iridani had their ships so outfitted later on.

FRA:
DN (T, L)
BC (T, L)
CLA (M, T, L)
CL (M, T, L)
DDL (T, L)
DD (T, L)
FF (M, T, L)
CR (M, T*, L*)

(8 ships)

*The Throne was operating with the disruptor, and TM refit, in these eras.

Trobrin:
DSN (T, L)
CC (T, L)
CA (M, T, L)
CB (M, T, L)
CT (M, T, L)
FFL (M, T, L)
FF (M, T, L)
FB (M, T, L)
PT (M, T, L)

(9 ships)

Probr:
DN (T, L)
CA (M, T, L)
CAA (M, T, L)
DD (M, T, L)
FF (M, T, L)
FFA (M, T, L)

(6 ships)

Koligahr:
DN (T, L)
CA (M, T, L)
CAD (M, T, L)
DD (M, T, L)
PB (M, T, L)

(5 ships)

Bolosco:
MD (T, L*)
MC (M, T, L*)
GC (M, T, L*)
TS (M, T, L*)
EX (M, T, L*)
XB (M, T, L*)

(6 ships)

*Still potentially seen in this era, mainly in Alliance space, but much rarer after the fall of their home space to the Souldra.

Qixa (outclouder):
CT (T, L)
DDT (T, L)
FFT (T, L)

(3 ships)



Now, so far that is a total of (EDIT: Forgot the FFN earlier) 65 ships!


As for the rest:

Loriyill:
DN (T, L)
CA (M*, T, L)
CAF (M, T, L)
DD (M, T, L)
FFL (M, T, L)
FF (M*, T, L)

(6 ships)

*Apparently, the Loriyill had ships of these classes long before 2400. However, since the Collective only adopted phasers after observing the current crop of Omega empires, the Ship Cards might look somewhat different - though just how different is not known as of yet. Not least since no-one knows yet what, if anything, the Loriyill used in those weapon mounts prior to adopting phasers...

Souldra:
DN (T*, L**)
CA (T*, L**)
CL (T*, L**)
DD (T*, L**)
FF (T*, L**)
SR (M*, T, L**)
TN (T*, L**)

(7 ships)

*These represent the eras in which ships of these classes were recorded in Omega. No-one knows for sure (maybe not even the Loriyill themselves) just how long the Souldra had ships like these in operation.

**After the Loriyill Splinter Collective's victory at the Black Sun in 2598, the number of all types of Souldra ships encountered in Omega shrank dramatically. Bear this in mind when planning scenarios set after this event.

Singers:
DN (T, L*)
BC (L*)
GC (T, L*)
CA (T, L*)
CL (M, T, L*)
DD (T, L*)
FF (M, T, L*)

(7 ships)

*After 2594, any surviving Singer ships will be taking shelter among the Loriyill Homestars, and will not be seen beyond them.


Qixa (in-cloud):
DN (T, L)
CCG (T, L)
CG (M, T, L)
DD (M, T, L)
FFL (M, T, L)
FF (M, T, L)

(6 ships)


This leaves another 26 ships to consider.


Now, in order to get playtesting for the first batch up and running, we'd need draft rules for:

*Tachyon Missiles
*Implosion Torpedoes
*HEATs
*TAs
*SRCs (EDIT: maybe ignore it for non-BoM purposes?)
*Variable-scale Photons
*Antimatter Cannons
*ACGs
*UWMs
*Gauss Cannons

and those funky Bolosco tractor weapons/systems.

Maybe an idea could be to work on that first batch of systems, in terms of doing proper FC-style draft rules for them (based on the back-and forth shown so far) and then seeing about testing these systems, before going on to the likes of the Loriyill and others.


Or does it not really matter which order the various weapons or systems get looked at?

(It wouldn't take long to write draft rules for fireballs or flame shields, for example - though I'd keep FSPs out for now, since they are a system intended for escorts.)

[terryoc]

Gary,

If I were you, I'd just do the weapons necessary for ONE empire first. Say, the FRA, because those are most similar to existing weapons and ships, and they're your favourites anyway. Then test the hell out of those. Trying to do multiple empires/weapons at once is likely to be biting off more than you can chew.

[DKeith2011]

Looking at the map in Omega 1, I would suggest the first playtest run be Maesron, Trobrin, Probr and Koligahr.

That gives a selection of interesting technologies and is effectively the core and first western border area of the Octant.

The second wave could add the eastern Measron border with the Drex and Vari.

The third wave could add the more distant western nations such as the Sigvirions, Chlorophons, Loriyill.

The fourth wave could be the more distant eastern nations such as the Alunda and Hivers.

Keep the initial selection of ships simple, say cruiser, destroyer and frigate (or equivalent) for each race.

Once the basic balance of the systems is worked the available hulls can be expanded.

[Nerroth]

Well, to answer both posts, I would say that starting at the 'central' region of the Octant and working out is a reasonable idea, I strongly believe that for FC purposes, a different approach should be taken, in terms of providing an 'in' to the setting.


Specifically, I would propose basing the introductory module - if there would ever be one - around the rise of the Republic of Aurora, and its growth into a significant player as the Federal Republic over the course of the Superpower Wars and beyond.


This would mean that the FRA would be the 'face' faction, since they are the 'TV races' brought into a new home away from home, and game-wise could be the first port of call for many Alpha players looking to get established in the Omega Octant.


Alongside the FRA, the Mæsrons are key players in Omega as a whole, and are perhaps the most important long-term ally of the Aurorans... to the point of actually seeing the FRA joining the Alliance in 2609.

And there are those pesky Vulpa-controlled hulls to deal with, too.

Their ships are an absolute must.


Also, as arguably the most powerful 'adversary' power over the course of Omega history, the Trobrin are a must, too.


The Probr and Koligahr are major players, too - but handily, they don't have all that many ships and systems to add anyway.


However, I would argue that the Iridani, Bolosco and out-cloud Qixa should be in the mix, too.

The Iridani are a personal favourite, have that fine Man-O-War battleship, and can show up pretty much anywhere in the Octant. (Plus, I went and did draft FEB and TI rules already.)

The Bolosco and Qixa are also commonly-seen, and are fun options to go for.


Quite frankly, though, I think that the Vari can wait.



Plus, when it comes to later additions, I'd sooner try and keep certain rival empires kept together, in terms of development.

As I see it, the Loriyill really ought to be kept alongside the Singers and Souldra, while the Alunda-Hiver-Branthodon and Drex-Ymatrian-Worb triads are, in my view, no-brainers.

(The Sigvirions could be developed along with the in-cloud Qixa and Chlorophons, and maybe even the Rynish, too.)

[Nerroth]

Okay, two points.


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First of all, anti-drones.

The way things are in SFB, ADDs are poor at killing tachyon missiles - for one, anti-drones in that game system treat TMs as shuttles... items that can't be killed by anti-drones in FC.

Indeed, it's for this very reason that the FRA forewent adopting anti-drones, and went for the short-range cannon modification.

However, Qixa ultrawarp missiles can be taken down more easily by ADD systems.


So, I would argue that anti-drones should not be able to target TMs at all, along with shuttles - but that an anti-drone can shoot down a Qixa UWM.


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And speaking of SRCs...


...one option, which was staring me in the face without me realising it, was to simply shunt the weapon over to Borders of Madness.

All of the listed ships which are equipped with SRCs enter service in the T-era anyway - and as it happens, all of those ships can simply go for the TM refit in the same time period anyway.

While in SFB history, not all such ships got the TM refit, and kept their short-range cannons, the FC version of these ships could be given the refit as a matter of course.

Thus, the 'standard' FRA fleet, as listed, can go without the short-range cannon.


Even in a BoM context, the only escort that has an option for SRC use, and which would be in service during an era where it can't go for an ESG refit instead, is the FFE - the DDE has ESGs as standard.

Pretty much the only units which keep SRC use as a rule are the squadrons of superiority fighters (from the Doberman-2 and on) and they would pretty much be BoM only, too.


So, it might be as well to put the SRC in the same category as, say, the flame shield projector - ie as part of a list of systems only to be featured in BoM.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


However, if one insists on allowing for SRC use, I tried to come up with the following draft - though I'm not overly comfortable with it.


(2O1V) SHORT-RANGE CANNONS

One of the systems found stored in the cargo bay of the Orion-hull cruiser Throne of Ozymondas in the early days of the Republic of Aurora was a prototype Klingon anti-drone system. When the Auroran Navy found itself facing neighbours operating tachyon missiles, which a standard anti-drone could not counter, the Aurorans modified the prototype system into a weapon more suited to their needs. The short-range cannon replaces the anti-drone's high-speed missiles with an energy-assisted explosive shell. This increases the flexibility of the system, but at the cost of requiring energy to operate.

(2O1V1) GENERAL RULE
(2O1V1a) Ship Card: Each ‘SRC’ box on the Ship Card represents one short-range cannon. It is disabled by a single point of damage, counts as a ‘drone’ when using the Damage Allocation Table, and is repaired by four repair points.
(2O1V1b) Ammunition: Each short-range cannon mount has a limited supply of ammunition (12 rounds, as for anti-drones), shown as a track on the Ship Card. Each time the short-range cannon fires, mark one round of ammunition as expended. Also mark the Impulse it was fired on the Short-Range Cannons Used track to remind you that you cannot use it for another volley in the same Impulse. Note that no ship has a short-range cannon mount which may also fire either drones or anti-drones, or any other weapons (auch as tachyon missiles) for that matter.
(2O1V1c) Overloads: As with anti-drones, short-range cannons may not be overloaded.
(2O1V1d) Reloads: When a short-range cannon system is empty, it cannot fire more rounds. To reload a short-range cannon system, use the Repair rules (5G5). Four repair points reloads the short-range cannon system. Note that as with anti-drones, if the system is destroyed, all ammunition within is lost, and must be reloaded after the system itself is repaired first.


(2O1V2) FIRING PROCEDURE
Short-range cannons may be fired during the Defensive Fire Phase (1E2c) (only against seeking weapons which have impacted the ship) or during the Offensive Fire Phase (1E2d) of the Sequence of Play. Note that the same short-range cannon system may not be used in both modes in the same Impulse. In either case, use the following procedure:
(2O1V2a) Step 1: Determine the Range (3A5) to the Target. (In the case of Defensive Fire, this is always range one.)
(2O1V2b) Step 2: The player owning and firing the anti-drone announces which short-range cannon is being fired (which must be un-Disabled) and the target. The target must lie within the firing arc of the short-range cannon system in question.
(2O1V2c) Step 3: Pay one-half of an Energy Token to fire to fire the short-range cannon shot.
(2O1V2d) Step 4: The firing player rolls a die, and compared it to the relevant listing on the Short Range Cannon Chart. If the roll lands within the range of probabilities required, the weapon has hit.
(2O1V2e) Step 5: The amount of damage inflicted varies on the size of the target in question. Drones, tachyon missiles, plasma torpedoes, asteroids and ultrawarp missiles are damaged according to the 'Size Class 7' listing, whereas shuttles and fighters are listed under 'size class 6' and all larger units (ships and bases) under 'size class 1-5'. Note the appropriate range to the target and apply the listed number of Damage Points. Note that if used in the Defensive Fire phase, a target not destroyed by the short-range cannon may be engaged by the use of phasers in the next step of the phase in question.
(201V2f) Note: Short-range cannon systems cannot operate in the same Impulse as an expanding sphere generator (5N) used on the same ship, or on a targeted ship protected by such, since the explosive shell cannot pass through the sphere. (This issue obliged the Aurorans to replace all SRCs on certain ships with ESGs when that technology became available, but no ship so far listed for use in Federation Commander has the option of using ESGs at present.)

[Nerroth]

This first weapon should be easy enough to handle - not least since most of the rules are in print already!

And the second... well, we'll see.

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(2O1Y) ALTERED-SCALE PHOTON TORPEDOES

When the Auroran Navy was founded in the 2530s, the issue of how to make the most out of the heavy weapon options they inherited from the Star Fleet and Police (and, in one case, Orion!) ships in the Aurora system at the time of 'transferrance'.

A group of engineers worked out a means of altering the scale of the photon torpedo launchers and warheads they could construct, and subsequently field on Auroran units.

Rather than retain the rigid doctrine of photon torpedo usage maintained back in the Federation, the Republic embraced the concept of altered-scale torpedoes, and began introducing these alongside standard photon torpedo launchers aboard the new-construction vessels of the Auroran Navy.

(2O1Y1) GENERAL RULE
Unless noted below, altered-scale photon torpedoes work in exactly the same fashion as standard photon torpedoes, as detailed in (4C).

(2O1Y2) TYPES OF ALTERED-SCALE PHOTON TORPEDOES
There are two types of altered-scale photon torpedoes in Federation Commander, as follows:
(2O1Y2a) Light Photon Torpedoes: Most commonly used on smaller hull types, but often used alongside standard photons on cruisers to enhance tactical flexibility. These are marked as LPHT on the Ship Cards.
(2O1Y2b) Heavy Photon Torpedoes: Only seen deployed on the largest ships and bases, these torpedoes offer an increased degree of punch compared to standard torpedoes. These are marked as HPHT on the Ship Cards.

(2O1Y3) ARMING
The most important note in this section is the amount of Energy Tokens required to arm, or overload, each type of torpedo. The actual procedure of arming and firing each variant is the same as with a standard photon torpedo.
(2O1Y3a) Light Photon Arming: Light photon torpedoes require a single Energy Token's worth of arming over the course of two subsequent turns. The resultant torpedo does four damage points.
(2O1Y3b) Light Photon Overloads: Light photon torpedoes may be overloaded by an addition one or two Energy Tokens' worth of power. Each increment increases the warhead by two damage points, to a maximum of 8.
(2O1Y3c) Heavy Photon Arming: Heavy photon torpedoes require three Energy Tokens' worth of arming over the course of two subsequent turns. The resultant torpedo does twelve damage points.
(2O1Y3d) Heavy Photon Overloads: Heavy photon torpedoes may be overloaded by an addition three or six Energy Tokens' worth of power. Each increment increases the warhead by six damage points, to a maximum of 24.


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(202A) TACHYON MISSILES

Arguably the most prominent seeking weapon type in the Omega Octant, the tachyon missile rose to prominence as part of the arsenal of the ascendant Mæsron Alliance. These huge weapons are larger than any Alpha Octant drone, and are more variable in their design, but have a slower launch rate than the norm for drone-like weapons.

Over time, the range of powers using tachyon missile technology expanded. This would include the Bolosco (who had a long-term contract with the Mæsrons concerning missile shipments) the Federal Republic of Aurora (who eventually built their own stocks of missiles under licence) and the Zosman Marauders (the Omega equivalent of the Orion Cartels, who stole the technology required to operate them). Also, the Vulpa, who broke from the Alliance and more than once fought to establish themselves as a separate power (eventually succeeding as the Vulpa Confederacy, which rose to prominence in the 2600s) and made the most of this inherited technology in the process.

(2O2A1) GENERAL RULES
While a tachyon missile operates similarly to a drone in many respects, it is a very different type of weapon. Some of the rules will be familiar to drone users, but take care to note what makes tachyon missiles unique.
(2O2A1a) Ship Card: Each ‘TM’ box on the Ship Card represents one tachyon missile launcher. It is disabled by a single point of damage, counts as a ‘drone’ when using the Damage Allocation Table, and is repaired by four repair points.
(2O2A1b) Carriage: Tachyon missiles are carried in 'racks', which carry three missiles ready to launch. Since each tachyon missile is pre-prepared for use, no energy tokens need be expended to carry, arm or fire tachyon missiles. Each tachyon missile rack may only fire once every second turn. In addition, if racks are shown as being 'paired' (such as pairing racks 1 and 2 on a given ship, for example) only one missile may be fired from that pair in any given turn. One may launch a missile from one rack in the pair on the last Impulse of a given turn, and from the second rack in the first Impulse of the subsequent turn.
(2O2A2c) Movement: Tachyon missiles move in the same manner as drones (4G) do.
(2O2A2d) Endurance: Tachyon missiles run out of fuel at the end of the third turn after launch, the way a drone does.
(2O2A2e) Reloading: Tachyon missile racks may not be reloaded during the course of a scenario. A ship may be assumed to carry spare missiles in the cargo bay, but the time taken to reload the racks is beyond the scope of a given scenario. However, one may assume that the racks would be re-filled in the interim between two subsequent scenarios.
(2O2A2f) Anti-drones: Tachyon missiles are too large to be affected by the low-yield warhead of an anti-drone. (It was this problem which led to the FRA to develop alternate methods of countering such weapons. However, no current Omega empire operates anti-drones in any event.)
(2O2A2g) Anti-Tractor: Each type of tachyon missile has a special pod built into the weapon, which makes it more costly to lock on to it via a tractor beam. A tachyon missile requires two Energy Tokens' worth of power to be caught in a tractor beam, rather than just the one required for drones.
(2O2A2h) Rack Disabling: If a tachyon missile rack is disabled, one of the remaining missiles is also destroyed. However, any remaining missiles may be launched once the launcher box is repaired.
(2O2A2j) Control: Tachyon missiles require double the amount of seeking weapon control that drones do. Thus, a ship capable of controlling six drones may only control three tachyon missiles at a given time. Certain ships may be noted as being able to control more seeking weapons than this, but the reduced ratio remains. (A ship which could control 12 drones can control only 6 tachyon missiles, for example.)


(2O2A2) TYPES OF TACHYON MISSILES
There are four kinds of tachyon missiles provisionally listed for use in the Federation Commander game system. (While there is a wide variety of modularisation in Star Fleet Battles for this weapon, this has been narrowed down for the time being, for the purposes of FC.)
(2o2A2a) Standard Missile: This is the 'default' missile, which remained in production throughout the operational service life of the design. It travels at speed 24, takes eight points of damage to destroy, and causes eight points of damage on impact. Unless noted otherwise, all missiles on a given ship will be of this type, and are 'free' (cost no points to purchase).
(2o2A2b) Middle Era Missile: This missile represents the kind of missile upgrade which was possible in the 'M', or 'Middle Years' era of the Omega Octant. (This broadly covers the First through Third Cycles, and runs from the mid-2440s until 2561.) It travels at speed 24, takes fourteen points of damage to destroy, and causes twenty points of damage on impact. Each costs 3.25 points apiece to purchase, and is available from the M-era and onwards. Note an 'M' in the box, or boxes, of the rack (or racks) you have purchased such missiles for, in order to facilitate record-keeping.
(2o2A2c) Transition Era Missile: This missile is made possible by missile upgrades made possible in the 'T', or 'Transition Era' of the Omega Octant. (This broadly covers the Fourth through Fifth Cycles, and runs from 2562 to 2591.) It travels at speed 24, takes twelve points of damage to destroy, and causes twenty-four points of damage on impact. Each costs 4.5 points apiece to purchase, and is available from the T-era onwards. Note an 'T' in the box, or boxes, of the rack (or racks) you have purchased such missiles for, in order to facilitate record-keeping.
(2o2A2d) Late Era Missile: The culmination of over a century's worth of design evolution, the missiles available in the 'L', or 'Late Era' of the Omega Octant, represent the upper tier of size, speed and capability yet known for this kind of weapon system. (This broadly covers the Sixth and Seventh Cycles, running from 2592 until well into the twenty-seventh century.) It travels at speed 32, takes ten points of damage to destroy, and causes twenty-eight points of damage on impact. Each costs 5.75 points apiece to purchase, and is available in the L-era. Note an 'L' in the box, or boxes, of the rack (or racks) you have purchased such missiles for, in order to facilitate record-keeping.

(2O2A3) COMBAT
Tachyon missiles can be destroyed either in flight through direct fire or damage from a seeking weapon launched against it, or in the Defensive Fire phase.
(2O2A3a) Counter-weapon Note: Note that tachyon missiles impacting each other will not mutually annihilate each other, as drones would. Also, drones and tachyon missiles do not mutually annihilate each other, either. In both cases, work out the damage inflicted on each seeking weapon normally.
(2O2A3b) Life of a Tachyon Missile: Tachyon missiles are fired in the Launch Step of the Sequence of Play, as drones are. It tracks its target and impacts in the same manner as a drone, with the below exception.
(2O2A3b) Myopic Zone: Each tachyon missile requires time to lock on to its target for a proper detonation. A missile may not impact upon a target until at least the first Impulse after launch. If the missile enters the hex of the target before this 'myopic' period has elapsed, the missile will evade the target by moving into an adjacent hex, before resuming its normal seeking pattern. (This reduces the short-range effectiveness of tachyon missiles, in comparison to drones.)


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Well, how's that?

Even if one sticks with the standard warhead, that should be enough, with the other rules up so far, to try out the Auroran and Mæsron fleet playtest-wise. However, the Bolosco would still need their funky tractor weapons and pod rules to get started.

(The L-missile could be changed to 32-28-10 and 5.75 points, if necessary.)

Also, the brick ultra-warp missile should be easy enough to add, too. The in-cloud UWM warheads might be best left aside for now.