That may not work as simply as just that in that if the enemy ship B won that tractor auction (against ship A which is trying to tractor it), then the original tractor beam between ships B and C would remain. In this tractor auction, ship B may add energy to the tractor link between itself and ship C, and if this makes the original tractor link (i.e. that between ships B and C) stronger than your new one (between ships A and B), your new beam will fail as only one link can be active at any one time and the stronger link survives.
So you would be tractoring the enemy ship for "one point more than his tractor", but one point more than his final value rather than what his tractor strength already is beofr you try and tractor him, because he can increase that beam strength when you attempt to tractor him - that's worth bearing in mind if you need to use such a tactic.
Tractors and turn modes
Moderators: mjwest, Albiegamer
Don't sweat it. I admit that I had the exact same thought as yours when Davec posted his missive.Kang wrote:I know - I was drifting againDavec_24 wrote:True, but that wasn't the point.
Plus, while you were drifting off his point, you were staying on point with yours.
Federation Commander Answer Guy
Another question about Tractors and Turn Modes, if I may.
A Fed CA is being tractored by an Orion CR, but the CA spends more on movement [CA: Speed 16, CR: Speed 16 but only spends 8 energy for that speed] and therefore controls the movement of the linked pair.
Now, the CA's baseline speed is 16, but because it is towing another ship, it drops one bracket to speed 8.
What is the CA's turn mode calculated from in this case? Is it counted as Speed 8 or Speed 16? i.e. original or modified baseline speed?
A Fed CA is being tractored by an Orion CR, but the CA spends more on movement [CA: Speed 16, CR: Speed 16 but only spends 8 energy for that speed] and therefore controls the movement of the linked pair.
Now, the CA's baseline speed is 16, but because it is towing another ship, it drops one bracket to speed 8.
What is the CA's turn mode calculated from in this case? Is it counted as Speed 8 or Speed 16? i.e. original or modified baseline speed?
Here we go again. Two questions. 
Ok, I have two ships of equal size where both have spent the same energy on movement. So neither moves - unless one accelerates and pays double accel cost. So the accelerating ship controls the movement of the linked pair for that sub-pulse. So far, so good.
In this case, what happens with turn modes? Does the moving [controlling] ship build hexes towards his turn mode? And if a ship in an equal tractor like this one pays for both accel and decel in the same sub-pulse, does he get turn mode hexes?
In fact I could sum this up by saying this: Apart from emergency decel and subsequent HET or Tac manoeuvres, is there any way for either ship in an equally-linked pair to change facing?
I'm not even going to go as far as slip modes
Second question: A ship with a baseline speed of 8 tractors an equally-sized target which for this example we shall say is at speed zero, so the tractoring ship controls the movement.
This reduces the new baseline speed for the tractoring ship by one level to speed zero.
Now, at this stage, is it true that the only way that that linked pair can move is if the tractoring ship [only] pays the [double] accel cost and moves the pair one hex per impulse?
This is a double question because I'm also checking that because the target ship has a lower energy spend on speed, his decels would therefore have no effect on movement; is that true too?
Ok, I have two ships of equal size where both have spent the same energy on movement. So neither moves - unless one accelerates and pays double accel cost. So the accelerating ship controls the movement of the linked pair for that sub-pulse. So far, so good.
In this case, what happens with turn modes? Does the moving [controlling] ship build hexes towards his turn mode? And if a ship in an equal tractor like this one pays for both accel and decel in the same sub-pulse, does he get turn mode hexes?
In fact I could sum this up by saying this: Apart from emergency decel and subsequent HET or Tac manoeuvres, is there any way for either ship in an equally-linked pair to change facing?
I'm not even going to go as far as slip modes
Second question: A ship with a baseline speed of 8 tractors an equally-sized target which for this example we shall say is at speed zero, so the tractoring ship controls the movement.
This reduces the new baseline speed for the tractoring ship by one level to speed zero.
Now, at this stage, is it true that the only way that that linked pair can move is if the tractoring ship [only] pays the [double] accel cost and moves the pair one hex per impulse?
This is a double question because I'm also checking that because the target ship has a lower energy spend on speed, his decels would therefore have no effect on movement; is that true too?
The first question is part of an overall larger question that I have asked of Steve.
That said, I would say that, since both ships have the same energy in movement, the base speed of both ships is zero while tractored. Therefore, your turn mode will be one. Your movement and turn mode would work just like an untractored ship moving at base speed zero.
On the second question, yes, I think you have it correctly. Since the one ship has the greater energy, the other ship gets no say in movement. And, at a base speed of zero, the only way to move is for the other ship to accelerate.
That said, I would say that, since both ships have the same energy in movement, the base speed of both ships is zero while tractored. Therefore, your turn mode will be one. Your movement and turn mode would work just like an untractored ship moving at base speed zero.
On the second question, yes, I think you have it correctly. Since the one ship has the greater energy, the other ship gets no say in movement. And, at a base speed of zero, the only way to move is for the other ship to accelerate.
Federation Commander Answer Guy
Note to self: check to see if two friendly ships at high speed can tractor each other, thus reducing their effective speed to 0 and reducing their Turn Mode to 1.
If so, what a great way to do mid-Turn speed changes without having to pay to decel!
If not allowed, is it strictly because of this sort of thing? Why can unfriendlies do it and not friendlies? Just because of game mechanics?
If so, what a great way to do mid-Turn speed changes without having to pay to decel!
If not allowed, is it strictly because of this sort of thing? Why can unfriendlies do it and not friendlies? Just because of game mechanics?
As far as I understand it, they can. You can tractor friendly ships to rescue them from navigational hazards like black holes, you can tractor them if they are crippled and unable to move, you can tractor them momentarily [see earlier in this thread] in order to break an enemy tractor beam's hold.
So, apart from a few restrictions on firing/launching, I'm not aware of any rules prohibiting your idea.
Naturally, I could be wrong, as is often the case
I think the assumption is made that for enemy ships linked by tractor, neither will want the other to go where he wants to go, and therefore their movement is assumed to be mutually antagonistic. For friendly ships, I guess another reason will have to be proposed.....
So, apart from a few restrictions on firing/launching, I'm not aware of any rules prohibiting your idea.
Naturally, I could be wrong, as is often the case
I think the assumption is made that for enemy ships linked by tractor, neither will want the other to go where he wants to go, and therefore their movement is assumed to be mutually antagonistic. For friendly ships, I guess another reason will have to be proposed.....
OK, I don't see a problem here. This is, of course, assuming that both ships are using the same amount of energy for the baseline speed. If one is using more power, the that ship will only loose one or two levels of baseline speed, not drop to zero.Mike wrote:Note to self: check to see if two friendly ships at high speed can tractor each other, thus reducing their effective speed to 0 and reducing their Turn Mode to 1.
But it takes a while. Again, assuming the two ships have the same power in baseline movement, then only one can make the turn in a given impulse. So, they would have to tractor on impulse X, one ship gets to accelerate and turn on impulse X+1, the other ship gets to accelerate and turn on impulse X+2, then they can release the tractor at the end of impulse X+2. All at the cost of one point of tractor for one ship, and then a "double-cost" acceleration for each ship.If so, what a great way to do mid-Turn speed changes without having to pay to decel!
This is a completely legal application of the rules (so far as I can see), but I see no problem with it. Sure, it is a bit wonky, but it isn't that ridiculous. Besides, it will still take some effort to make work correctly.If not allowed, is it strictly because of this sort of thing? Why can unfriendlies do it and not friendlies? Just because of game mechanics?
Federation Commander Answer Guy