Terrain questions

[Kang]

I have several questions on the Asteroids rules as depicted in Tholian Attack and Battleships Attack, and one question on gas giants.

1. Web anchors. Rule (5M2e)3 states that 'Asteroids [of any type]' may be used as web anchors. However there's also the rule that states that once a larger asteroid that was a Web anchor is destroyed, the 'bag of rocks' can only be used as a Web anchor as long as the web is still there. The moment it dissipates, the 'bag of rocks' disperses. But surely, an ordinary 'small' asteroid hex [ie not a medium or large asteroid] is only a bag of rocks anyway but can still be used as an anchor. Also what about 'dust' hexes - they also seem to be counted as 'asteroid' hexes for many purposes, including Direct Fire [DF] weapons and movement damage. Can they be used as Web anchors? And what about planetary rings and comet tails [which are just dust I know]?

2. Combat. (6B3) has it that firing through one, two or three hexes adds one to the die roll for DF weapons. four hexes adds two. At least, in Tholian Attack [TA]. Battleships Attack [BA] does not mention four hexes. a) Which is the most up-to date rules, BA or TA [bearing in mind that the asteroid towing rules in BA were stated to be the most up-to-date, and BA is the later product but actually has a shorter paragraph on DF weapons fire than TA], and b) what happens at ranges greater than 5?

3. Combat/moons. The main Rev.4 rulebook states in (6A2) that moons do not block fire. However, a large asteroid is still an asteroid and will block fire and/or movement as far as I can tell. How then does an asteroid block fire and movement while a moon [which is bigger] does not? Do we assume that the large asteroid is in fact surrounded by smaller rocks that have not yet accreted to it?

4. Gas giants. Please can we clarify what the different coloured rings and 'atmosphere' hexes are for on the Distant Kingdoms gas giant maps?

Sorry to be a pain with this; I know FC is supposed to be simple. The thing is I'm just learning the Asteroid and Web rules and I want to get it right so I can teach it correctly. I'm really not trying to nitpick

Thanks!

[mjwest]

I'll have to wait until this evening to give you more detailed answers.

Two quick answers:

2. Even though the BA rules are the most up-to-date, that specific item was a mistake. The combat effect is -1 for one to three hexes of intervening asteroids, -2 for four or more. The original intent may have been to be -1 per three hexes, but I think it was just capped at -2. I do still need to get clarification on this, however.

3. An asteroid hex (of any size asteroids) represents many chunks of rocks. So, a moon doesn't block fire because it is pretty easy to maneuver within a hex (because they are so ridiculously big) to get a shot at the enemy. Asteroids, which again represent many rocks, still don't block fire, but rather make that fire more difficult because they obscure the firing resolution.

Again, I will post more detailed answers later, but I hope these two help things get moving for you.

[Kang]

They do help, thanks. Capped at -2 seems good - especially as Web Casters can fire through Asteroid hexes. Of course, the 'target' for a WC can be an area of space 50.000km long

[Mike]

Ah, yes! The use of the "." instead of "," for multiples of thousands in numbers (50.000 vs. 50,000).

I tell my U.S. students about this, but the vast majority of them have never seen it.

[mjwest]

OK, here are some more expansive answers. I hope they help.

1. Web anchors. Rule (5M2e)3 states that 'Asteroids [of any type]' may be used as web anchors.

You are confusing "asteroids" with "asteroid hexes". Individual asteroids can be used as web anchors, asteroid hexes may not. Either medium (6B5) or large (6B4) asteroids may be used as a web anchor. In the case of asteroid hexes, "normal" and "heavy" asteroid hexes may be assumed to have an individual asteroid that can serve as an anchor. "Dust" hexes (including comet tails and planetary rings), however, have no real asteroids in them, so there would be nothing which could serve as an anchor.

2. Combat. (6B3) has it that firing through one, two or three hexes adds one to the die roll for DF weapons. four hexes adds two. At least, in Tholian Attack [TA]. Battleships Attack [BA] does not mention four hexes. a) Which is the most up-to date rules, BA or TA [bearing in mind that the asteroid towing rules in BA were stated to be the most up-to-date, and BA is the later product but actually has a shorter paragraph on DF weapons fire than TA], and b) what happens at ranges greater than 5?

As I mentioned above, BA is the most up-to-date, but I am sure the issue with (6B3) is an unintentional omission.

So, if you are firing through one to three asteroid hexes, you have a modifier of 1. If you are firing through four or more asteroid hexes, you have a modifier of 2.

3. Combat/moons. The main Rev.4 rulebook states in (6A2) that moons do not block fire. However, a large asteroid is still an asteroid and will block fire and/or movement as far as I can tell.

You are again confusing "asteroids" and "asteroid hexes". Asteroid hexes force modifiers when fired through (but don't block it), can cause damage when moved through. However, asteroids themselves do not do this. So, if you have a single asteroid in a hex (which is then not an "asteroid hex", but rather just a hex with an asteroid in it), then it would be treated pretty much the same as a moon. It doesn't affect movement or fire, but it can be landed on. (And, if it is a large asteroid, could have a small or medium base on it.)

4. Gas giants. Please can we clarify what the different coloured rings and 'atmosphere' hexes are for on the Distant Kingdoms gas giant maps?

Well, a lot of that is just artistic license. Most of this is simply determined by how to set up a large planet as described in (6A3) and (6A4). Let's see if I can try to help, anyway.

Large hex, seven hex planet: This one is pretty well defined. The non-surface (remember, it is a gas giant, so there is no surface, per se) is defined by 14-42-74-77-48-17.

Large hex, three hex planet: This one is fairly well defined, too. The surface of the planet is 44-55-56-46-36-35; the center is 45. Some hexes have a little bit of border in them (e.g. 54, 65), but this doesn't mean anything. It is just a graphical thing. The ring is perfectly defined, and is the planetary ring.

Small hex, five hex planet: The planet is easy. The surface of the planet is 0607-0806-1007-1009-0810-0609. The actual ring hexes are those colored dark orange: 0406-0804-1206-1210-0812-0410. The light orange hexes are just "artistic" to make the rings into a circle instead of a hexagon. That said, there is no reason you can't define the planet to have a wide ring, so that all hexes of both colors are ring hexes.

Small hex, seven hex planet: This one is a bit "fuzzier", but that is the result of putting an actual circle over several hexes. The "non-surface" hexes are: 0506-0804-1106-1109-0810-0509. The rings are well defined. They are shown in two colors so that, like the previous planet, you have options. So, you can have only one of the colors serve as rings, and ignore the other color, or you can use both colors and have a wide, or double, ring.

Sorry to be a pain with this ...

Nope, not being a pain. It is a lot of stuff, and not all of it is perfectly explained.

[Kang]

Thanks Mike. You've obviously put a lot of time into this one.

I'm supposed to be coming over to Tyler, Tx. in August to see my brother. In the event that we get chance to meet up, I owe you a beer or two

[Kang]

Individual asteroids can be used as web anchors, asteroid hexes may not. Either medium (6B5) or large (6B4) asteroids may be used as a web anchor. In the case of asteroid hexes, "normal" and "heavy" asteroid hexes may be assumed to have an individual asteroid that can serve as an anchor.

[Bold emphasis mine] So what you are saying is that you can use asteroid hexes, as long as they are normal or heavy, but other asteroid hexes [just leaves dust really] cannot. Is that right?

[mjwest]

Yes. You cannot use an asteroid hex as a web anchor, in and of itself. That said, you can use an asteroid in an asteroid hex as a web anchor.

I thought about that after I posted the original message, but didn't get a chance to fix it.

[Kang]

That said, you can use an asteroid in an asteroid hex as a web anchor.

I thought about that after I posted the original message, but didn't get a chance to fix it.

.....but what about Heavy or Normal asteroid hexes, in and of themselves? Sorry to be so pedantic, but I'm getting mixed messages here

[mjwest]

Let me try to express it differently:
- An asteroid hex, in and of itself, may not be used as a web anchor.
- Normal and Heavy asteroid hexes may be assumed to have multiple individual asteroids of "medium" size.
- Any one of these individual medium asteroids may be used as a web anchor.

Therefore, while you are not using the asteroid hex as a web anchor, you can use an asteroid within that hex as one.

I will, of course, be getting a confirmation (or a correction) on this when Steve gets some time.

[Kang]

Ah! Thanks for that - all is clear now!

Looks like I owe you a few more beers then....

[mjwest]

Well, I do still need to get a confirmation (or not) on that last point. It is, of course, always subject to being overruled.

[Kang]

Another two [related] terrain questions, if I may.

Let's say I'm in hex 45, and my target is in hex 65. A planet hex is in hex 55, so my line of sight passes along the edge of that hex. Is my line of sight blocked by the planet or not?

Also, a web question. We know that we can fire in to a web hex, and we can fire out of one too. However, can we fire into and out of web hexes at the same time? Example: I'm in hex 45 and the target is in hex 56. Both are web hexes but there is empty space between the two hexes [no planet this time ]. Can I make the shot?

[Mike]

I'm going to make a prediction about the answer to your question about a line of sight along the boundary between a planet hex and an empty hex. Since I'm almost always wrong in interpreting these things, I predict that Mike West will say that the line of sight would be blocked. You see, I would predict exactly the opposite of that. The rule on direct fire in relation to planets says that if a line drawn from center of firing hex to center of target hex passes through any part of a planet hex, the fire cannot take place. My reasoning would lead me to believe that, since the line of fire does not actually go through any part of the planet hex, it should be able to take place.

I'm kidding about this, of course. Mike does a great job. It might end up depending on which hexside (i.e. shield) the target ship wishes to take the fire through. (S)he does have that option if a shield boundary is split.

[Mike]

Kang: By the way, I forgot to ask about this is my last post... If you have access to a SFB map, can you send a description of the same situation, but using SFB map hex numbers instead? I don't have any FC map panels, but I would still like to set this up to see exactly how it looks.