Pick a theme for ships of 2014

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:06 pm

I think the broader point being made was that even if most of the commando units offered were to be cruisers, they needn't necessarily all be "war" classes.

If the Feds have to choose between a CL- or NCL-based hull, it might be a little more characterful to go with the former. Similarly, if the Klingons were to use a D6G rather than a D5G, I wouldn't see that as a deal-breaker.

Plus, the ISC don't (yet?) have a commando variant of their own CW (or DW) in SFB, so would likely be using a Pacification-era hull type for this task here anyway.

And if there were to be a range of SRs done at some point, not all of those would use the same base hull - and those that do are not necessarily equal in terms of performance. But just because the GSC is arguably in a class of its own doesn't mean that other empires needn't bother making use of their own survey ships.

Oh, and to clarify, which size is the Andromedan Diamondback satellite ship, and would it be the best candidate as a commando variant for that faction? (I don't have a copy of Module M to check for myself.)

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:30 pm

I voted for commando ships.

IMHO the ships to be used should be roughly equivalent in troop capacity. CW commando ships would be about right I think.

While I like the Fed Commando OCL, all ships in FC can land on planets which loses the OCL some of its flavour.

DNordeen · Post by **DNordeen** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:16 am

Voted scouts. I'd really like to see the bigger scouts that can compete better with the Fed SC. Right now, the Fed's have a huge advantage in sensors per fleet. I know that's the way the Feds are, but the SC vs 2-sensor scouts is just blatantly unfair. At least give everyone else 4 sensors.

jeffery smith · Post by **jeffery smith** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:51 am

Svc: I would be happy with any version of the Demon Hawk if you choose to create it.

Mjwest: yes there has been several "never built's" allowed into FC. I can understand Svc not wanting to add another to the list. I just prefer the Dhawk over the Condor. The worst thing that could happen is Svc says No. if that were to happen then so be it, no big deal. if he creates it then I get to use 1 of my favorite DN's.

As for Commando ships. since FC is set during the GW era of the SFU. I would think that these would be "War hulls" since both sides would have chewed through there stock of viable reserve fleet hulls trying to hold the line or sustaining there current offensives. while I would like to see the D6G,CMC,etc... I believe that the War hulls best represent what was used for Commando, escorts, or scouts during the war.

although I do believe the D6G,CMC,ect... would fit in well as an add on to briefing #2: the middle years.

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:05 am

I note that the Frax DWG has been done, and I'd be happy with DW, not CW, sized commando ships. The points and size seem just about right.

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:08 pm

According to the post-CL47 MSC, it looks like the Frax DWG and CWG, the Klingon D5G, the Kzinti Medium Commando Cruiser, and the Fed NCT have been done so far. (They are the ones that come up if you do a search in the document for "commando", so there may or may not be others in there that are listed differently.)

There is also an entry for the Hydran Cataphract, but it's listed under Briefing #3 (which does not exist as if yet). Had it been done in an issue of Communique also, or has it yet to be posted in Ship Card form?

Sneaky Scot · Post by **Sneaky Scot** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:23 pm

Mike West wrote:

"If you don't do them all as CW or DW variants, are you willing to have your favorite empire get stuck with the crappy one? Maybe the Klingon should get the D6G, but the Feds get the CFF. (Gotta have diversity and all, right?) So, before asking for a random assortment, make sure you are willing to have your empire screwed.

Oh, and why screw the Romulans? Do you honestly think that giving the Klingons a D6G, but the Romulans a crappy DD-variant works out well? (It does for the Klingons, that's for sure!) And I suppose the Tholians have to live with their POS PC-variant, right?"

Personally speaking (and it was opinions that were asked for, right?) I like diversity. It makes things more interesting, and for certain, some races wouldn't do as well as others. Not a particular fan of cookie cutter ships I'm afraid. (The CW / DW proposal is exactly that, right?) At the end of the day it's what floats your boat that encourages you to spend one's hard-earned credits.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:49 pm

Sneaky Scot wrote:I like diversity. It makes things more interesting, and for certain, some races wouldn't do as well as others. Not a particular fan of cookie cutter ships I'm afraid. (The CW / DW proposal is exactly that, right?) At the end of the day it's what floats your boat that encourages you to spend one's hard-earned credits.

See, that's the interesting thing. From what I have seen, most people say they like diversity, but only until they get screwed. Maybe that doesn't apply to you, but that makes you an exception, not a trend. So, while doing CWTs and DWTs may not be the sexiest or most diverse solution, it meets the need in an expeditious and equitable manner and will prompt the fewest complaints.

And, yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and making it known was (and still is) requested for. But, I am still going to point out where I see inconsistencies or problems in what is being asked for. (And, to be fair, I also try to be honest about the inconsistencies and hypocrisies of what I ask for, too.)

In fact, I like to believe I am actually helping with the request when I point out problems and issues with the request. That way the person making the request will know beforehand what they have to overcome to get their desired result. For example, a request for non-war hull variants will have a much better chance if you show how to alleviate any of those inequities. Or, the request for a Demonhawk have a much better chance if it is explained how it is more interesting than a Condor, even without having any modularity.

jeffery smith · Post by **jeffery smith** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:52 pm

Mjwest: I have always thought your comments are helpful (at least to me). I will thank you for the suggestion as to why I think the Demonhawk is more interesting. I hate to say it but I have not thought of taking that approach when requesting this ship.

As for the "cookie cutter ships" comment. please do not take this personally but if you look at naval history you will find that mass produced "Cookie cutter" types are what make up the majority of fleets during wartime. you can see lots of examples of this in the USN in WWII.

I would like some variety between the various empires also but how long were these hulls produced once the war was started ? (not to mention the fact that these are easier for Svc to create and fit this "Universe" a bit better) but that is just my thoughts.

Sean Xor · Post by **Sean Xor** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:15 am

I voted commando ships. I would really like those ships because having them would open up cross game play Federation Commander and Star Fleet Marine, which I find interesting.

Sneaky Scot · Post by **Sneaky Scot** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:56 am

MJW

Well, it's always nice to be thought of as an exception! I have no problem with inconsistencies or issues being pointed out (perhaps not in quite as terse a tone and my apologies in advance if I've read it wrong), and consider that your input is vital in keeping the game fun and interesting, and agree that CWG and DWG will give the most even spread of capability but (for me anyway) less interest. Perhaps a cunning plan might be a mix of CLG and CWG classes?

I can pretty much guarantee that I'll be happy with whatever appears regardless.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:32 pm

Sneaky Scot wrote:(perhaps not in quite as terse a tone and my apologies in advance if I've read it wrong)

Well, I do apologize for that. I don't always get "tone" correct, and I did not intend to come across as terse. I do try to avoid that, but, as you got to experience yourself, I don't always succeed.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:57 pm

Been that way for 30 years.

"Not everybody has to have everything, but I have to have everything. Not everybody has to be equal, but I have to be more than equal."

It's not evil, it's human nature.

That said, at least part of the idea is to make every empire "campaign capable" which means everybody needs a workable commando ship. You don't need a comando ship exactly the same size as everbody elses; you just need a commando capability.

Sneaky Scot · Post by **Sneaky Scot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:10 pm

Mike,

Pretty happy that you get it right virtually all of the time.

I look forward to seeing whatever we end up with.

Steve

Spacecowboy87 · Post by **Spacecowboy87** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:40 am

PFs! PFs! PFs! I need to put my insurance to the test

Pick a theme for ships of 2014

What theme should we pick?