Feasibility of SFB/FC over Roll20.net?

[Itharus]

Just wondering if anyone here has tried playing these games over roll20.net?

They have a token system, a map, movement and what not... It's been probably 5 years since I've used the thing though so I have no idea if any forms could be submitted into the thing and be useful... but... maybe?

I imagine you might have to trust the other players a lot on some things, too. But still... just wondering if it might be a decent way to play the game online. I imagine there'd be more people interested in learning/playing the game at a major site like that than some others.

[ncrcalamine]

5 years ago or so the was a web site that had fed com online. There were organized tournaments there. I dont remember the web site name any more.

[mjwest]

That would be https://www.sfbonline.com/fc.jsp.

[Itharus]

Is that active, though? Has a nice level of quality, just wondering if it's active.

R20 has a huge audience built in. I'll investigate more deeply on making it work there I guess. I was just hoping someone already had, lol!

Always a good idea to check if someone else has done the work and posted it already before setting about doing it yourself ^_^

[Itharus]

Ah damn, I just realized Roll20.net probably wouldn't work. Unless you could somehow post shipcards that were able to be marked up and visible by all - WITHOUT being a pdf - then you'd run the near certainty of some pick-up-game member saving the bloody things and likely distributing them or something :-/

Although if there's a way of using the map feature that would allow them to be marked up and not shared... that'd be a good work around. Does anyone who uses the site know if that's possible?

[Itharus]

It appears feasible after all.

I guess images can be dropped into the map layer and marked up. So as long as your fleet battle isn't ludicrously large to the point where it leaves not enough hex-map, you could just embed the SSD and trackers and what not directly into the map layer.

From what I was told, you can't just go right-click/copy the images off of the map layer. But the risk of taking a screenshot and fiddling with it is there, and not preventable.

That's a potential risk with the SFB/FC online program, as well though.

So the question is, to ADB:

What are your thoughts on using Roll20.net as a way to play SFB/FC online? By necessity, some elements such as SSD will be portrayed on screen, as they are in the sfb-online site, and they are subject to the same vulnerabilities as that.

If you don't want it happening, I won't do it, but I feel the need to point out that I haven't seen this game even sold physically in any of the stores I frequent since 2015. When I last asked a major regional store about putting a table up on their demonstration days I was actually denied because they had no interest in selling the product and didn't want to waste a table.

It's a depressing thought. I leave the decision up to you though. There will be some unscrupulous people who would inevitably screenshot things in a pick-up-game. The only defense I can think of for this is to only run the training scenarios/materials that you have freely available until such time as someone with their own materials joins a game, but even then since SSDs must be visible, folks will have to drop their images and undoubtedly SOMEONE will do a screenshot of an ssd or something just because they can.

Other than just trusting that enough people will do the right thing and actually pay for their materials, I'm not sure what can be done about this. It seems like an inherent risk of the internet. By that same token though - if you ever copied an ssd for use in an in-person game that someone wanted to try but didn't have, there's always some folks who would take that home and photocopy it forever as well.

:-\

It's up to you, guys! Let me know one way or the other

[Steve Cole]

The SSDs on SFBOL aren't full SSDs but just countdown types, and as such no matter how you copy them they don't do much for you outside of SFBOL. Not my problem. Paul told me a couple of years ago that all of the full SSDs have been deleted; if that's not the case Paul needs to fix it.

[Itharus]

I was unaware. If he said that's the case, then I'm sure it is. I was making an assumption. I guess the old saying of how you spell assume applies. My bad.

So then would you like me not to play this game on Roll20 with unknown players?

I mentioned above the constraints on roll20, but there's literally nothing I can do if someone screenshots and crops. I just don't want to do anything that would screw you guys over.

I presume it would at least be ok to play the "First Missions" stuff on Roll20? I could at least introduce people to the game that way, and everything in that pack is already freely available. Hhhm, or what about just using the ships posted in the Communique freebies? Obviously there'd be no rules posting beyond the stuff in First Missions. Not ever. This is really just about slapping SSDs into the virtual table top just because they're absolutely necessary.

I just want more matches floating around, lol

[Steve Cole]

As I said, since screen shots of SFBOL (no matter how or where you get them) aren't going to give you an SSD that you can use outside of SFBOL, I do not see a problem.

[Itharus]

As I said, since screen shots of SFBOL (no matter how or where you get them) aren't going to give you an SSD that you can use outside of SFBOL, I do not see a problem.

Ah, sorry, I think I've been unclear.

I meant do you have any qualms with playing the game on Roll20.net ? It's a virtual table-top website. The problem there is the need to place SSDs in the tabletop layer. From what I have been told they cannot be directly copied that way, but someone could screenshot the SSDs and edit the thing to steal them, basically.

In a private game with a known player that risk is very minimal, but still present. Pick up games? Unknown, but higher. I am asking if you're ok with the risk of someone going through the trouble to do the above and snag an SSD. Rules and other things would not be exposed, they'd have to rely on their own materials or just asking me about a given topic. It's the SSD that are vulnerable here.

The alternative solution I mentioned is, if you are NOT OK with the risk above, is it ok for me to play public games only with the free SSDs provided by the Communiques and FirstMissions bits? Since those are freely available, I'm hoping it'd be alright.

Sorry for making you keep coming back to this thread, lol.

[JohnDDW]

The way I have used roll20, is that you take a picture of something you own, like a map from an RPG module you purchased, or an SSD card that you have from whatever pack, then you could upload it into roll20 and put it on the layer you need. Using it in this way, it's the same as playing on a table with the stuff you purchased to play the game, just that you're taking a picture with your phone or something so you can use an image of the thing you purchased in this online table.

[Itharus]

The way I have used roll20, is that you take a picture of something you own, like a map from an RPG module you purchased, or an SSD card that you have from whatever pack, then you could upload it into roll20 and put it on the layer you need. Using it in this way, it's the same as playing on a table with the stuff you purchased to play the game, just that you're taking a picture with your phone or something so you can use an image of the thing you purchased in this online table.

Yep. That's precisely so. It embeds the image into the table top layer. I just wanted to make sure it was alright with ADB before I did that because there's a risk someone will screenshot the table top and then crop the SSD out of it. It's... a small risk honestly, but I felt it respectful to ask first.

There's also the road of just using the freebie SSD's they've posted in communiques - I can't see that being a problem, but I ask about that as well just in case.

[Sgt_G]

So if you upload an image (e.g., a FedCmdr ship-card or SFB SSD), is it the in the cloud for anyone to come by and download any time they want? Or is it only available for the players who uploaded it while playing that particular game session?

I'm not ADB and can't speak for them, but I tend to believe that will be the make-or-break point.

[JohnDDW]

The way it works is there is a public library of assets available, and your own private account has a library of stuff available.
unless you specifically upload to the public library, and i'm not sure how exactly you do that, then the stuff you upload is just on your account. As far as I'm aware.

[Steve Cole]

I would say to use SFBOL and the problem doesn't have to be dealt with.