Federation Commander

djdood · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:47 am Post subject:

Bear in mind, the freighters have all been declared "non-scale", along with the other general units and bases. They exist in their own scale and are usable for both Starline 2400 and Starline 2500 (thus the new term for them, Starline 2425). Don't put too much weight into the difference between these two.

When new freighters were going to be done for Starline 2500, I lobbied hard for them to be placed at the proper scale, relative to the Fed Tug pod. That was overruled for various reasons.

When the new small and large freighters showed up, they were pretty much 100% to my drawings... and also almost identical in scale to the existing minis, so they were cancelled after the first batch.
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Sgt_G · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:58 am Post subject:

I hear you, Will. I'm just glad I got them to shrink the police cutter down some. The first draft was as big as the freighter. Even after they brought it down, my deck plans grew from 90 meters long to 108 meters and gained another deck. Also, I needed them to move the engine pylons back as they were set so far forward they'd connect into the sick bay.
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Garth L. Getgen

Master Sgt, US Air Force, Retired -- 1981-2007 -- 1W091A

Scoutdad · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject:

I cannot remember exactly where its at, but even though the freighter mini and tug pods are different sizes - they should be the same.

IIRC the lore correctly, the pods were pretty much interchangeable.
Tugs / Freighters would work a circuit of far flung worlds.

They might go to Sherman's Planet (for example) with a cargo pod full of necessary materials...
Drop it off and pick up a pod full of exportable materials from Sherman's Planet...
And head to the next stop.
Leaving a pod behind that was emptied by locals, then refilled by locals and picked up by the next scheduled freighter / tug to visit.

That's why SFB has diagrams for freighters in 'bob-tail' configuration.
It's a very expensive way to move one (since there's no paying cargo), but the bridge section and the propulsion section basically clamp onto the end of the pod and turn it into a ship.
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Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF

mjwest · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:25 pm Post subject:

Again, even if it were done again, the freighter pod should NOT be the same size as the Federation cargo pod. The Federation cargo pod has a larger volume than a civilian pod. The freighter is based on the civilian pod. Ergo, the freighter should NOT be directly scaled to the Federation cargo pod. The civilian cargo pod (and, therefore, the freighter) should be just over three-quarters the size of the Federation cargo pod. In other words the civilian cargo pod to the Federation cargo pod should be 3:4, not 1:1.

I still don't know why this mistake is always being made. Civilian cargo pods ARE NOT Federation cargo pods. They cannot be the same size.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

mjwest · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:33 pm Post subject:

Let's use some numbers.

If the Fed cargo pod is 40 meters in diameter and 200 meters long, and we want the civilian cargo pod to have the same diameter, then the civilian cargo pod would only be 156.25 meters long. If we wanted the civilian cargo pod to be the same length, it would only be 35.36 meters in diameter.

Regardless of how you cut it, the volume of a civilian cargo pod is only 78.125% of the volume of a Federation cargo pod.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

djdood · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject:

Numbers don't lie.
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Steve Cole · Site Admin Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 3828

2400s are 3788, a number that happened when Zocchi told them "make it three inches long."

2500s are 3125.

The change of scale is officially "the biggest mistake I ever allowed to happen" and "the decision I regret the most." Mongoose (in fairness, they did it for good business reasons) wanted to force people to toss their 2400s and buy all new 2500s, which is why they prohibited 2400s from being used in tournaments and conventions they sponsored.

As far as more 2500s, I haven't said "no more" and I haven't said "yes more" but the market decides. The problem is that the last six we did for 2500s sold like 12 ships each, meaning we lost hundreds of dollars on molds and sculpting, but the low sales may be because they are less poular ships. For perfectly obvious reasons, Mongoose did the best sellers first and it's arguable than there is nothing left that's going to sell well enough to be worth doing. On the other hand, Mongoose and I both want to do more if we can do it without losing money.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

Itharus · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject:

Well, you've got guys who know CAD apparently. Some software and a commercial 3D printer could be an option for updating the whole line or making a new one, no?

Some of the better 3D printers actually have chambers with laser measuring tools. You could scan the existing models into software, clean them up, edit as desired, and then 3D print them. You could even print on demand as ordered to reduce inventorying costs Very Happy

Probably be a nasty initial expenditure but it may pay off if you guys do decent minis business. Or does Mongoose have you guys locked into the current set up?

Also, don't feel too bad - the 2500s LOOK nice. So at least it's a pretty mistake if nothing else! I'm surprised the resins were a limited set though - was pewter cheaper?

I also fully understand if discussing any of the above business oriented things is not something for the forum. I'm just a very curious person by nature, especially about things I enjoy Smile

I was actually surprised when I first bought SFB that the set had a bunch of counters instead of a few minis. I had always perceived this as a miniatures game.

Sgt_G · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject:

I for one don't mind that Fed tug pods and civilian freighter pods aren't the same-same because other empires use the same kind of civilian freighters, do they not?
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Garth L. Getgen

Master Sgt, US Air Force, Retired -- 1981-2007 -- 1W091A

djdood · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:20 pm Post subject:

Itharus · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:29 pm Post subject:

Nothing stifles my curiosity. I'm like the proverbial cat. Thankfully, I also have nine lives Wink

The first time I ever saw the game was with minis, probably why I see it that way. The same group of players introduced me to BattleTech/MechWarrior, Warhammer, D&D played with minis, etc.

djdood · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:13 pm Post subject:

I've seen two major types of SFB player archetypes:
1) the "meta-gamer" who is playing the ruleset.
2) the "role-player" who is playing the setting.
(with some folks in the middle)

Hardcore grognard tactical masterminds tend to be #1.The game components are just markers to them, something to track progress and not much more.

Minis folks (myself included) tend more to #2. I'm commanding a starship - there are rules in place to simulate that for me and I'm responsible for my own (often bad) tactical choices, but flying starships around and winning the day for the good guys is why I'm at the table. In my case, I don't even care if I win; it's nice, but getting a good game in (in space!) is the mission.

I'll play with whatever folks bring to the table, but minis are always going to draw the spirit more than flat cardboard, for me at least.
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mjwest · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:37 pm Post subject:

Jack Bohn · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject:

djdood · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject:

Yes.

That's one of the great things about casting with almost all metals - if you have a bad cast, you can just chuck it in the remelt bin, along with all the pour sprues and vent stacks.

2-part liquid resins are indeed a one-shot deal. Once cured, they're done, good or bad.

Some folks get casting with liquid resins confused with injection-molding of thermoplastics. Many plastics for injection molding allow regrinding and re-use of their waste too, but not cast resins.
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