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Federation Commander
A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
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Itharus
Lieutenant SG
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 122
Location: California
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 Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:33 pm Post subject: Model sizes? |
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Hi!
So, the 2400 series are 1/3788 scale. We know that a TOS constitution class is 289m long.
Is there a list anywhere of model lengths (inches, millimeters, whatever) so that we can calculate the length of a given ship (if it were full size)? Or do we need to bust out measuring equipment and do it the hard way? I'm hoping there's some information on the molds  |
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Steve Cole
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3828
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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We have never measured the individual ships so there is no existing document I can just copy and paste. We'd have to go measure all 100+ shps and, well shucks, that time needs to go into new products. If somebody else does it, we'll be happy to make the data part of the permanent download section.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander
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Itharus
Lieutenant SG
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 122
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well, as I collect them I'll measure them up and let you know. But that'll be a long path unless I win the lottery or something. Hopefully others will read this and bust out a ruler and report
The only mini I own right now is the Federation CC, and it's en route. I guess I'll let you know if the scale is true soon, lol |
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Sgt_G
Commander
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Offutt AFB, Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:03 am Post subject: |
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The problem is, the Starline 2400 series minis were not always to scale. (At least they were reasonably close, unlike another mini game currently on the market.) The Starline 2500 series ships, on the other hand, were developed to be in-scale with each other at 1:3125 (give or take a little).
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Garth L. Getgen
Master Sgt, US Air Force, Retired -- 1981-2007 -- 1W091A |
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Itharus
Lieutenant SG
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 122
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Are you sure? They say 1/3788 on 'em 
I like the 2500s, but I'm probably going to wait 'til the line is more complete before I start collecting those. I'd rather not mix scales, it'd be weird.
I did just get my Fed CC in today! You really realize how small that engineering section is when it's detached, lol. What is that thing, like 30m wide? Tiny! Big fat saucer, though. I'll measure it in the next day or two and post what I find here |
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Sgt_G
Commander
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Offutt AFB, Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What is that thing, like 30m wide? Tiny! |
The Fed CA/CC's secondary hull is roughly the same size as the entire body of the Federation Police Cutter, which has a crew of ~100 personnel. It's also roughly the length of an NFL football field.
The saucer is, per source material, 127.1 meters in diameter. That's how they got the 1/3788 scale. They (Zocchi, not ADB) made the mini first and then calculated the scale. Everything else was intended to be set to that scale, but sometimes the artist / sculptor wasn't overly precise. The civilian freighters, for example, is completely out of scale. Or rather, the ship was re-defined to match (changed from 40x200m to 30x150m).
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Garth L. Getgen
Master Sgt, US Air Force, Retired -- 1981-2007 -- 1W091A |
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Scoutdad
Commodore
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4754
Location: Middle Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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In addition, several of the later variants used actual production version Starline 2400 miniatures as the basis for the variant miniature.
The casting method often causes a bit of size lost to compression effects.
It's only noticeable when you break out the calipers... but at that scale, it doesn't take much of a size change to create a huge difference in 'true dimension' when scaled up.
And in some cases, a variant miniature was used to produce a follow up variant, doubling the possible size loss.
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Department Head, ACTASF |
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djdood
Commodore
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 3413
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Not to mention molds that wore out over the last 30 years and had to be re-made using production minis as masters.
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Itharus
Lieutenant SG
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 122
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow. Ok. I'll drop it, lol. I was just hoping to figure out the size of all the ships. I love to know tiny details like that. |
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Sgt_G
Commander
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Offutt AFB, Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, me, too. Stuff like that helped a ton when I drafted the deck plans for the police cutter.
Will / Tony: Is the Zocchi Fed tug-pod mini the same size as the small freighter pod, or is it noticeably bigger?? I'm looking for and can't find a photo of those two ships side-by-side. Thanks!!
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Garth L. Getgen
Master Sgt, US Air Force, Retired -- 1981-2007 -- 1W091A |
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mjwest
Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4072
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Sgt_G wrote: | Yeah, me, too. Stuff like that helped a ton when I drafted the deck plans for the police cutter.
Will / Tony: Is the Zocchi Fed tug-pod mini the same size as the small freighter pod, or is it noticeably bigger?? I'm looking for and can't find a photo of those two ships side-by-side. Thanks!! |
Based on their SSDs, the freighter pods (which have 25 boxes) should be noticeably smaller than the Fed pods(which have 32 boxes). So, I seriously hope they are supposed to be different sizes.
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Itharus
Lieutenant SG
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 122
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| So who is designing the 2500s? |
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Sgt_G
Commander
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Offutt AFB, Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Itharus: That was part of the joint venture between ADB and Mongoose Publishing over in England. The way it started out, Mongoose did the 3d-CAD work and sent images to ADB for approval. SVC would post these on the SFB discussion board and we'd give our feedback, which was sent to Mongoose for adjustments. Once the 3d-CAD was approved, Mongoose used a 3d-printer to make the master and the molds, and they had the casting facilities. Long story short, the casting is now done here the USA.
Mike: Yes, but I want to know what the actual minis look like. I don't have a Fed Tug, or if I do it's buried too deep to dig out easily.
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Garth L. Getgen
Master Sgt, US Air Force, Retired -- 1981-2007 -- 1W091A
Last edited by Sgt_G on Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:44 am; edited 2 times in total |
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djdood
Commodore
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 3413
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Itharus wrote: | | So who is designing the 2500s? |
Like Garth said. SVC was the final decider, but Mongoose put up a lot of time, money, and people to produce both ACTASF and Starline 2500 and as a partner they got a lot of say - not all the minis fans agreed. The change in scale was one of the biggest bones of contention - Mongoose got their way, as it "allowed the minis to have more detail". It's years in the past now, and a done deal.
I ended up having a lot of input during the development phase, because I was willing to put the time in to do my own drawings and CAD models (in a few cases) to help Mongoose dial-in the scale and details on some ships. For about a year, I spent pretty much every minute I wasn't at my day job either doing drawings or emailing SVC, trying to stay ahead of the Mongoose folks' output. It's how I got my silver star award. Eventually, SVC unofficially dubbed the working-group as "McCammon Starshipwrights"; Xander Fulton did the spiffy banner for it, which is in my signature line.
Mongoose had a couple of very talented CAD modelers working for them, but none of them knew the SFU the way uber-fans on the bbs did. There were vast amounts of discussion. For the most part, everything ended up in at least a nice compromise. The Tholians are the only place where things went completely off the rails (luckily only the basic PC patrol corvette ever made it as far as production availability).
Moving forward, Mongoose still does some work (mostly scale-downs of existing CAD models). I don't know if they'll be doing new models. I am on the hook to deliver a half dozen CAD models before the end of summer, so I'm already late, but getting there.
| Sgt_G wrote: |
Will / Tony: Is the Zocchi Fed tug-pod mini the same size as the small freighter pod, or is it noticeably bigger?? I'm looking for and can't find a photo of those two ships side-by-side. Thanks!! |
It is noticeably bigger, particularly in length.
You asked this question, at the perfect time when I had the relevant bits handy to take a picture.
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Sgt_G
Commander
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Offutt AFB, Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Will. If the tug pod is 40 x 200 meters, as the FJTM says it should be, then the freighter pod looks to be 30 x 155-160 meters.
Now, once I have the top-plane view of the OAL mock-up, I can try to figure out the size of the fighter hanger modules and can then see if they'll fit on the Federation police cutter deck plans. 
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Garth L. Getgen
Master Sgt, US Air Force, Retired -- 1981-2007 -- 1W091A |
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