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Opinions on the Vudar

 
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Magnum357
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Opinions on the Vudar Reply with quote

I've been looking at some of the data I have of the Vudar, and I'm trying to figure out what is so special about this race. The Ion Cannon and IPG are somewhat interesting, but its just easier (espeically for Pirates) to install Disrutpors and ESGs. The only thing I can see the Ion Cannon being useful for is its pretty good odds at hitting with proximity fuse, but even a standard setting disruptor can do that just as well.

So I must ask, any opinions on this race or comments?
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Dan Ibekwe
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The super-power of the IPG is that, due to the sequence of play, it can kill Stingers before the Stingers can can shoot.

ESGs offensive bursts are simultaneous with other offensive fire, so the fighters still get to skin the cat.

(The countermeasure is to spread the fighters out, usually in pairs. Gives the wretched radioactive reptiles the choice of killing a couple of fighters but not jamming the Hellbore salvo that arrives at the same time. And then having no juice left to stop the next fighter wave).
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The IPG and ESG are nothing alike.

ESG - damages drones hitting target up the energy limit, so good at some drones, but not at lots.
ESG - can hurt all ships within 1 hex, but is indiscrimate - so including allies.
ESG - absorbs hellbores (but makes them auto hit).

IPG - damages all drones in 2 hexes, no limit. A single IPG can kill every single drone within 2 hexes during defensive fire, even if they have impacted others ships.
IPG - damages all stingers in 2 hexes, no limit. 3 IPG can kill every single stinger within 2 hexes, 2 can cripple them all - before they even get to fire.
IPG - can be used to provide 'ECM' shifts making the ship harder to hit. This can combine with EM.

The Cannon is not bad either, constant damage all the way out, and a better than photon hit chance beyond very short range. It can't hold like a photon, but the overload is double the damage for 2 energy which is fairly efficient.

The proximity fuse didn't make it into the final war and peace rules as I remember - they were in the Reference rule book but with a note that they might not be used.

Overall Vudar are not bad. They are not awesome, but not bad either. They excel against hydrans using mass stingers and heavy drone users (they really are in a league of their own when it comes to drone defense, ESGs are pathetic next to them).

Plus Disrupter/ESGs on orions? - double weapon space on just a handful of ships, you'd never get the same quantity of ESG as you could IPG, and having committed to a point blank weapon would probably not be taking disrupters.
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Nerroth
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ion Cannon rules from revision 6a of the Reference Rulebook make no reference to a proximity fuze option. Just standard and overload modes only.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha - I had an early version of that rule book. They were in that, with a note about being play test or some such. Nice to know that was removed to match war and peace.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the ion cannon. It has more crunch than disruptors, but most of the accuracy. It has the single best overloads in the game (50% increase in power for 100% of the damage.) it also uses 2 dice for the to-hit roll, so it is less affected by 4A4 modifiers. It can be held after being charged. It is a great weapon.

In SFB it is almost never used by Orions due to the requirement to include impulse energy in the arming. But, in FC where that isn't the case, it is a good Orion weapon. It has crunch, accuracy, can be held, and doesn't cost any Point Value. I am surprised it isn't used more often.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having the best overloads in the game is arguable. I'd say that honour is probably still with the photon.

What makes the photon scary is that it can hold overloads. Something the IC can't do. So whilst it takes a huge 8 power to fully overload a photon, at the point you are wanting to fire it you may only need 2 to hold it. This is huge in the important initial stages of the game, as it means spare power to do other things an deliver huge crunch.

A turn 1 pass between a photon and IC cruiser has the photon paying 8 to do upwards of 64 damage, where the IC ship pays 12 to do upwards of 48. After that they are both pretty similar - 2 turns to arm, 2 power per turn, 2 extra power to do 12 damage each, except that if they only fire standards the photon hits harder, but the IC has a slightly better hit chance beyond short range.


The thing I liked about the Vudar ships/Cannons though was that they had FX cannons, not all unfortunately, but enough that they can do some things that photons can't (which are always FA).


Whilst I haven't played them extensively, I have played them quite a few times. The things I remember:

I found the FX cannons very useful in some of the oddball campaign game where I was playing them.

They seemed very good against disrupter ships. Most of them rely to some extent on drones, and drones are just not something you ever need worry about. Also the ability to use the IPG shifts at mid-long ranges allowed you to close to crunch(ish) range quite safely, and then rearm in some safety if the range opened up again. Although the IPG is another power drain on top of rearming so can be difficult after the first pass.

They felt quite good at extreme range fights. Possibly due to playing larger games with decent numbers of cannons, but IPG makes you very difficult to hit hard at very long range, yet mass ICs will score enough hits to hurt. This is especially relevant with scouts (also used a lot in the games we played) as most empires are badly affected by scouts at long range, whilst (as noted by MWest) ICs rolling 2 dice are slightly less affected. With a +1 from a scout and a +1/2 from IPG you can be almost immune to very long range fire whilst scoring enough 6 damage hits back to definitely be noticed. This isn't going to be common, but it can be effective if you are in game where it can be done (bases, slow targets etc).
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Magnum357
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Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input fellas. It appears the Ion Cannon and IPG do have some nitches I did not realize. Smile
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