Federation Commander

[mattdanison]

In Communique #119 there was mention of FIRST CONFLICT: ROMULUS, a one-page proposal for a new game based on the Federation-Romulan war during the sublight era.
This sounds interesting. Is there any further information available? Is anyone else interested in this?

[terryoc]

Haven't heard any more about it. Sounds like ADB don't know who to contact about it and the proposal is stuck in limbo.
_________________
"Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West

[mattdanison]

Well, it has been two years since my original post and no additional info. As previously mentioned by ADB in another post, there is not much player interest in sub-light battles. Bummer.

Keep yer powder dry.

[mjwest]

Here is the thing about sub-light battles: It doesn't really add anything to the game.

First, the SFB game system assumes light speed as the baseline. In other words, to move at all, it is assumed that the ship is traveling at light speed (or a close approximation thereof). So, either the game system is reduced to everyone moving in binary speed (either 0 or 1), movement is rescaled, or a whole new movement system is added.

I think we can safely dismiss the whole binary speed thing, as that removes too many tactical options from the game for no benefit. Rescaling is very doable (and is basically what the first attempt in Section Q did back in the day), but at that point there is no differentiation with the base game. Using a whole new movement system could be cool (e.g. doing a pseudo-vector strategy on a hex map), but at that point, is it still enough like the base system to keep players involved?

Second, what do you do about weapons. We know there were lasers and atomic missiles. We also know the virtually don't rate in the base system, so, again, we face rescaling to make it work with enough damage variation to make it interesting. Also, having just two weapons (which was what was done in the old Section Q) probably isn't feasible, so whole new weapons would have to be created, but then made such that they don't cause any issues with the base game. Based on the experience of creating new weapons for the Early Years, that will be an incredibly thin window to hit.

Third, you lose technology. No transporters or tractors. No warp (obviously). And the broad selection of weapons goes out the window. Ships become very similar and battles become very deterministic.

Fourth, the background is very limiting. You have the Four Powers fighting. Feds v Klingons, Kzinit, and Romulans (each pretty much in isolation). Romulans v Gorns. ISC fighting themselves. Very little cross-pollination and little opportunity for variety.

Finally, virtually no one would be interested in the effort. Players don't want to dig into the past of the SFU. While there is lots of interest in the X-era and probably in the X2-era (or anything that will take the game into a facsimile of TNG), there is just no interest in going backwards. Remember: Steve was willing to publish an "Early Years" Booster pack for Federation Commander if 20 people committed to buy it. That didn't happen, ergo no Booster. If the Early Years couldn't get 20 people, I fail to see how Sub-Light Battles would do any better.

So, to be brutally honest, Sub-Light Battles hasn't been done, and probably won't be done, is because it just isn't a viable product with a viable market. I apologize for sounding so negative, but wanted to explain (from someone who has watched this discussion happen on and off for a very long time) why it hasn't happened.

EDIT: Just to be clear, by "virtually no one is interested", I don't mean literally zero people are interested. I simply mean that the number is so small that it is basically not economically viable.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Nerroth]

Rather than trying to re-engineer either SFB or FC to fit the era of non-tactical warp, I'd argue that it would be a better fit in an alternate game engine, such as Starmada, A Call to Arms, or something else entirely. And even then, it should not be intended to scale with either Star Fleet Starmada or ACtA:SF (or whatever else) - or, for that matter, to mimic any of the other Starmada or ACtA settings (which for the most part work at "low sublight" scales) - but be designed from the outset to work at its own scale.

So far as factions go, there would still be a decent amount of variety in each historical grouping. There's the various Federation member fleets (Terran, Vulcan, Andorian, etc), the Orions (both before and after they join the Feds on their own terms), the Romulans, Gorns, and Paravians; the Klingons (to include both the cast-off Old King hulls they first acquired and the earliest "manta ray" hulls they built for themselves), Kzintis, Lyrans, Hydrans, and Carnivons; plus the five pre-ISC fleets. One could even include a handful of "minor" factions which were more of a factor in this era, such as the xenophobic Yeney from Prime Directive Federation.

Not that I'd expect to see the Q-era done, for any game system, any time soon (if ever) myself. But if it were ever an option, better it be its own thing, rather than a re-scale of a system best kept for use with tactical warp combat.
_________________
FC Omega Discussion (v3)
FC LMC Discussion

[cnuzzi]

If all of the FC Early Years material that is currently scattered across a number of products (an issue of CL, a CL Supplement, and some Communiques) were packaged up together as a PDF, then I'm sure people would buy it (I certainly would). It would be simple to do, as the material is already created - it would just have to be compiled into a single document, and sent off to w23. Any chance of that happening?

The model to follow re: packaging and pricing would be that of the Omega and LMC playtest packs.

As for players not wanting to dig into the past of the SFU, I find that hard to believe. But then, maybe I'm atypical.

[cnuzzi]

As for the First Romulan War, I think there is a lot of interest in it as a setting. Unfortunately, everything Trek-related regarding this has been hampered by one ridiculous line of dialogue written by someone who was obviously scientifically illiterate. I am all for respecting canon, but in this case, I would ret-con the hell out of it. Make it take place during the Early Years, with those ships (and maybe some new war designs, like Early CWs and DWs) and weapons, and those movement rules, etc. Create a Timeline of the First Romulan War and some scenarios to go with it. Call it First Romulan Attack. I think that would be a must-buy for most players of FC!

[mattdanison]

[mattdanison]

[Steve Cole]

We cannot legally make that kind of total change to the universe.

Paramount is very very insistent that the SFU remain totally consistent with its published materials to date. They may be concerned that if we start making changes of the kind shown here we might try to "accidentally" land in the realm of the post-license movies.

The problem is not consistency with one line of dialogue. It is consistency with every published SFU product. To be sure, the products are derived from one line of dialogue and we already pushed that as far as we can with non-tactical warp for strategic movement.

But the kind of changes you want are not legally possible under our licensing agreement with Paramount. And don't even dream of me asking Paramount to allow an exception. They won't say "sure, go ahead" and it will only annoy them.
_________________
The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[mattdanison]

Thank you to everyone for the responses.