Federation Commander

[Steve Cole]

Well, a few thoughts....

1. A PDF pack can be whatever number of ships works and doesn't take a lot of my time. !2 or 14 is no problem. However, a "Booster Zero hard copy laminated card" product is another matter entirely. For one thing, boosters are usually 7 cards, so you'd be limited to 2feds-2Klingons-2Kzintis-Base at best. Maybe the Boar could squeeze in.

2. I still have my doubt that Early Years would sell enough for ADB to avoid losing money. That said, the cheaper the better (cheaper including the cost of SVC time, the company's most valuable and limited resource). In that regard, the booster is better as I only have to do 7 cards (and Mike only has to write a few rules). IF that sells we could do a second booster and bring in another empire or two, but I'm skeptical. I might suggest that Booster Y2 be 2Lyr+2Hyd+1Fed+1Klingon+1Kzinti and that Booster Y3 (if Y2 sells) might be 2Carniv+1Lyr+1Hyd+1Fed+1Klingon+Boar

3. Now, one issue here is that we're talkign low production runs and adding rules, so the normal $9.95 price for a booster might not hold, and there could be sales resistance to 8 cards for $12.95 but let me look into cost figures and some options. If I can get a plausible price on a print run of 100 cards (instead of 500 which would never ever sell) maybe a hard copy product is possible.

4. Hard cards vs PDF is an interesting discussion. Here's the thing. Some want cards and nothing else will do. Some want PDFs and nothing else will do. Some would be happy to pay separately for both. On the other hand, it may be that doing a PDF "test" product might kill the potential sales for a hard copy product. There are far too few of us here for anything anyone says to have any weight on that decision; it ends up being my "gut call" and pressuring me one way or the other usually results in dropping the whole idea.

WARNING: I would ask that W-era be excluded from the conversation more or less permanently. If there is every a good-selling Y-era product we can think about it, but you're talking niche of a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche by the time you get to W. Please stop even mentioning W or this project goes nowhere.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[mjwest]

The rules are not an issue, as they already exist. They just need to be verified and possibly updated. The nice thing is that we would only need to include the rules for the ships in the pack, so it would be spread out nicely. In addition, we could even include a scenario or two per Booster, too.

So, let's dream for Boosters. I know this is getting ahead of the game (and quite possibly will never happen), but, still, listing out ships lets us see what is possible. For a starter, let's list the main list of available ships we can consider. Not all will be used, but at least having a master list will help. (Note that I am skipping all of the "Y"s on the ship designations.)

General: Dock, Base, Freighter, Space Boar
Federation: DN, CA, CL, DD, FF
Klingon: C4, D4, F4, E2*
Kzinti: DN, CS, CL, FF
Lyran: DN, CA, CL, DD, FF
Carnivon: DN, CA, CL, DD, FF
Hydran: DN, CA, DD, FF
Orion: CR, LR

I am ignoring the Romulans, Gorns, and ISC. Note that Orions are last and only needed if we get to Y4 or so. I included the civilians because targets are always cool, but they will have a low priority. (Probably with the Orions.) The unarmed freighters are "free" as they are really just a block of damage that moves. A ship card is cool, but those initial freighters can just be described. I also ignored the troop and tugs. They are so niche that I assume they will never be needed no matter how wildly successful this effort ends up being. Note that I have completely ignored all CCs. The reason is because they are so similar to the CAs, and there are so few ship slots available, I thought the diversity of ships was better than having a near-duplicate-but-ever-so-slightly-better ship.
Also, note that the Klingon E2 doesn't exist in SFB yet. It would be cool if we could get the E2 included in a CL so we can use it and give the Klingons four ships total. I have conditionally listed it above.

In each case I will start with seven ships, but offer an option for an eighth
Y1: Fed CA, DD; Klingon D4, F4; Kzinti CS, FF; Boar. 8th: Base.
Y2: Lyran CA, DD; Carnivon CA, DD; Hydran CA, DD; Fed CL. 8th: Orion CR
Y3: Fed DN; Klingon C4; Kzinti DN; Lyran DN; Carnivon DN; Hydran DN; Kzinti CL. 8th: Dock
Y4: Fed FF; Klingon E2; Lyran CL, FF; Carnivon CL, FF; Hydran FF. 8th: Orion LR

If we do this, we have a nice pack for Y1. The Kzinti are a bit weak, but without a DD, the second ship is either the FF or CL. The FF makes more sense (and may be a better ship to boot). If we stop at Y2, then we have all of the western empires represented, and they are all fairly equal. Plus, Y3 is an incentive, as it has all of the big ships. Y4 pretty much covers the rest of the ships. (Or, Y3 and Y4 can be reversed, so that you hold out the incentive of the big ships for a little longer.) If all of that goes well, we are probably done, unless we want to branch into the CCs, civilian ships, auxiliaries, and/or the eastern powers. But, if the series sells well enough to get through Y4, why not continue?
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Nerroth]

The supply dock might be too large to fit onto a single-space Ship Card, so may need to be swapped out for something else to go into the above lists. (Perhaps either the YFT/YCT or the YAP/YCUT?)

That said, if it were viable to do short production runs of 8 (or 16) single-space Ship Cards, might that same process also allow for sets of 4 (or 8) double-space cards? If so, perhaps that could allow for a later pack to offer the YDK alongside, say, the Klingon B4 and the Fed and Kzinti YBBs.
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FC Omega Discussion (v3)
FC LMC Discussion

[mjwest]

You are correct. I should never have mentioned the dock. I apologize for that. Replace it with either some random freighter (either the unarmed ones or the "normal ones with phasers" [i.e. not the "armed freighter auxiliaries"]) or something like that.

As for double-sized cards, I recommend just not going there. Don't even think about them, suggest them, or bring them up. If we get to see Y1 - Y4 produced, then double-sized cards can be brought up as a possibility for a potential Y5 or something. But, before Y4 is actually in production, it is counter-productive to even think about double-sized cards for anything, including the dock I shouldn't have listed or mentioned.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Steve Cole]

After reading yesterday's posts, I called in Jean and we discussed things. There are nine EY cards in the file from CL39 and CL39SF. There is a tenth card we somehow decided not to print, so that's ten. Add to that a base station and the space boar, and the rules from CL39, and you've got 90% of a PDF playtest pack. It won't happen next week as I'm busy with Captain's Log, but I can "poor boy this through" a little at a time and we can have a PDF playtest pack by the end of the month, I'm sure. I need to set up the layout file, place the 20 cards (10 pairs), cut and paste the rules, do a countersheet, convert a base station card, create a space boar card, and have Simone whip up a cover. If it sells enough to prove there are more than just two or three guys who want this (like a hundred or two hundred) then we'll see about moving forward to a product.

Now, yesterday Jean showed me that the Omega Playtest Pack has sold enough copies to start thinking about some kind of product. I am not sure it shows the sales potential to do counters, but cards at least. There is an available single-sided countersheet in the production track a year away but the minimum print run is 1,000 and I doubt the sales potential of Omega or EY is that high.

And yes, let's not dream about double-size cards until sales potential gets proven.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[Steve Cole]

Set up the file, check
Placed rules into file, check
Placed 10 ships (20 sides) into file, check

Create revised base station: not yet
Create space boar card: not yet
Create countersheet: not yet

Proofread by Jean: not yet
Card check by Jean: not yet
Cover by Simone: not yet
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[mjwest]

EDIT: Whoa! I was totally wrong. I have corrected things below.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[jeffery smith]

oh this is something I would have waited awhile for, to see a playtest PDF this soon is great. Thank You!
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fun fun fun in the sun sun sun

[Steve Cole]

Be careful how you define "soon".

Jean has to check it, and she has to finish the Kindle version of GLORY first and CL50 second, she won't even start checking it and I won't start doing new work on it for at least 3-4 weeks. Might be a good idea to ping me then and remind me that I said I'd sneak a playtest version out the door sometime. (If some odd thing happens and this appears sooner, be happy, but if I doesn't get on the download sites before the end of March, well, don't say I promised it would be in January.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[mjwest]

In case anyone doesn't know what the 10 ships are, the first 9 are:

Fed CA, Klingon D4, Romulan WB, Kzinti CS, Gorn CL, Hydran CC, Hydran CA, Lyran CA, and Orion CR.

The Fed, Klingon, Kzinti, and Lyran were in the Captain's Log, and the Hydran CA, Romulan, Gorn, and Orion were in the Supplement. The Hydran CC was in a Communique.

I have no idea what the tenth ship is.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Dal Downing]

Fed DD.

*Ducks and runs.*
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-Dal

"Which one of you is the Biggest, Baddest, Bootlicker of the bunch?"
"I am."
"ARCHERS!!! THAT ONE!!!!"

[JimDauphinais]

[jeffery smith]

Svc: all things being equal I thought it might be a couple of years before this might appear so that's why I am doing the "happy Dance" at the moment.
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fun fun fun in the sun sun sun

[Paul B]

[Steve Cole]

They were published in Captain's Log so you could playtest them. The lack of any reports may indicate a lack of interest.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander